Atheist Need Not Offer Proof

[mochilero]

The simple definition of an atheist is one who doesn't believe in God - not one who can prove god doesn't exist. I simply am not convinced from the evidence. No need to insult believers or argue that god does not exist. The burden of proof logically is always on the person asserting something (that god exists).

Steve

www.TheMeditationSite.com (http://www.themeditationsite.com/newsletter.html)

[cob1639]

The burden of proof logically is always on the person asserting something (that god exists).

Steve

Whenever my wife tells someone that I don't beleive in god, people always expect an explaination. Like I'm the one who believes in something that can't be proven. I should expect an explaination from them for their belief. I would never say anything about it though, you know how some religious people can be. I just have a hard time believing the "stories". I also have a hard time believing in UFOs and ghosts and all that. However, I do think that if something profound hit me that it could possibly knock me into believing in any of the above.

Does this qualify as agnostic or athiest? Or am I just too much of a sissy to think one thing and keep it there?

O+<

[Trina5695]

First if all, why is your wife telling people you don't believe in god? Seems like it should be up to YOU, whether or not you tell others about your beliefs.
Secondly, you sound like an agnostic to me...a seeker. There is nothing wrong with not knowing, no one REALLY knows anyway. As long as you keep an open mind, and never close the door on learning, you can be at peace.
...take care.

[cob1639]

First if all, why is your wife telling people you don't believe in god? Seems like it should be up to YOU, whether or not you tell others about your beliefs.

She does uphold the widely held stereotype about some wives yak yak yaking all the time! But she's a good wife to me and a good mother to the kids. So, it's a small price to pay. Plus, and most importantly she's HOT!

Secondly, you sound like an agnostic to me...a seeker. There is nothing wrong with not knowing, no one REALLY knows anyway. As long as you keep an open mind, and never close the door on learning, you can be at peace.
...take care.

Agnostic - sounds good. Can agnostics have beer and cigarettes? And how many wives are we agnostics allowed to have? I'll use my religion to take advantage.

Sorry, I couldn't help myself - Thanks Trina!
O+<

[Trina5695]

hahaha, funny stuff. Although I do highly recommend restricting yourself to just one wife, as there could be unpleasant consequences <snicker>.

[Wallis]

An atheist is defined as "someone who believes that God or gods do not exist."

An agnostic is defined as "someone who does not know, or believes that it is impossible to know, whether a god exists."

The proof of either is in the pudding and is a matter of faith. Faith is defined as "someone who continues to support someone or something." So, everyone has a "faith," even though each persons "faith" differs from others.

I believe the bottom line is: act according to your "faith." If you don't, then others will know you to be hypocritical.

[cob1639]

An atheist is defined as "someone who believes that God or gods do not exist."

An agnostic is defined as "someone who does not know, or believes that it is impossible to know, whether a god exists."


I truly believe that god does not exist. That is my belief. But I still think I could be convinced that there is one. Not by words or by someone saying just the right words at just the right time, but by an experience. By something that makes me feel it. I don't really need proof, (which kinda contradicts the whole idea of faith) but I just need to feel the work of god.

I don't think it's impossible to know, but as I wrote, if a feeling hit I think I'd like to go with it. Logically, then I would feel like I know there's a god.

Organized religion is a whole other story. I'm just hoping for a "supreme being".

Don't get me wrong, I have a great life and about a billion positive things in my life (usually called blessings) but I don't feel that God is responsible for it.

...And please spare me the: "How do you think your life is good without god?" I've heard all that and I'm not moved. Sometimes hard work pays off!

O+<

[Wallis]

Let me offer you an exercise:

Look back at your life when it was at a very low point. Now, what happened? How did things turn around? How did events occur that just meshed together?

You could call this situation as being circumstantial. Or, you could say that there was something outside of ourselves that influenced the events that surrounded your situation to come out in your favor.

I’d like to tell you of two events that happened to a friend of mine and one that I personally experienced.

First, my friend (who has now departed this world) was a devout Buddhist.

Story 1: Before my friend became a Buddhist—he was a devout atheist at the time—a Buddhist monk came up to him and told him he would receive an important gift. He scoffed at the idea, but several months later, several Buddhist monks came to his house and bowed to him. (I mean, knees on the ground and head lowered to hands.) They gave him an old picture (not a photograph but more like a drawing) and told him to protect it. He and his wife placed the picture in a frame and placed it in a cabinet that would serve kind of an altar. There was a fire in the room that destroyed everything, except—get this!—the cabinet! The picture was not even damaged in any way.

Story 2: My friend lived in an area that was lower than the rest of his neighborhood. One year, there was a horrendous flooding that inundated the house, except my friend’s computer room where this very same old picture and the cabinet sat. The water, as I said, flooded the whole house except this room, which was lower than the rest of the house even.

Now, I’m not a Buddhist, although I do like many of its teachings. But those two stories alone could have almost converted me that there was something beyond ourselves that was acting in these two events.

Story 3: Several months ago, I returned to Korea to accomplish a few things that needed wrapping up.

I wanted to bring my adopted Korean daughter for a visit to the Philippines. Since she has a Korean passport and both her mother and I are American citizens, she had a problem: her Korean passport was on the verge of expiration. Everyone told me that I could not get her a passport renewal in time to take her to the PI. Well, two things: (1) I ignore people who tell me “You can’t do that,” and my history shows that I “can” do things that are deemed impossible about 95% of the time; (2) I have a trust in God that baffles most people: I just don’t worry about things; and whatever happens is supposed to happen.

Without going into details, I did the impossible. My Korean daughter had her passport, and she was with me for two months. I junked my car and avoided fines and a great deal of hassle. I fixed a credit problem with the AAFES exchange system. And on and on it went. What items I had on my agenda, everything “fell” like clockwork.

I guess the upshot of these stories is that these alone are not proof of the existence of God. Faith in something does get started when a person realizes that something is going on in their lives that just cannot be explained naturally. And, even when there is a shadow of faith, there are things going on in each of our lives that are no longer coincidental but possibly have something much larger acting behind the scenes. You probably know the odds of things being coincidental. Once in a lifetime coincidence comes out in our favor. But time and time again?

For me, it is these multiple coincidences that humble me and secure me in my faith. They certainly humbled my friend in his belief in the Buddha. To an outsider, my friend and I are probably regarded as being extremely irreligious because we don’t go through all of the motions of being religious (going to church/temple, tithing, etc.). Going through the motions hasn’t anything to do with faith anyway. It is a personal thing that motivates a person to act and think in the real world according to that faith a person subscribes to.

[cob1639]

I fully understand that reference regarding the passport plight. Not only do they want 6 months future validity, but they usually require a certain number of blank pages. I work in a very closely related field so I know the hassle involved in that. I know the "on and on" to which you refer! Also, it was just sorta dumb luck that I ended up in that field. (I used to work at a stupid video store with a 9th grade education)

A bunch of things needed to occur in a very specific order for me to have that luck. To be able to support my family as comfortably as I do, doing what I do.

My wife says that I keep making excuses to not believe in god. I dismiss her, like husbands are supposed to do, but maybe there's something to what she says.

It's hard enough to convince someone that, what they experience is more than just luck - how hard is it to convince someone who denies pretty much EVERYTHING related?!?! Maybe I'm not as open as I'd like to think I am!

O+<

[Wallis]

I understand about the "open" part. I'm pretty hard-headed myself. But many years ago, I started meditating. When I moved to Korea, I studied different techniques in meditation. It's done me a lot of good. Whole new worlds and ideas have opened up. There is one saying that Buddha is credited with saying, and I believe it more each day: "The more I know, I realize how much I don't know."

[Trina5695]

I'll be brief. Do not be so quick to dispense with what you know. Those of us (and there arent that many) who are able to think freely...know more than we think we do. Do not allow your fear of the finality of death to sway you into self doubt. There are the highly intelligent...seeking/thinking folks......and those who are sheep ..who are afraid. As I have stated before...some people REALLY need those crutches. ;)

[Wallis]

Trina, you mentioned the finality of death. Do you mind if I ask your thoughts about the inevitability of death?

[Trina5695]

The inevitability of death? Yes, death is inevitable. Nobody lives forever. I guess I am not exactly sure what you meant with the question.

[Wallis]

I was just curious as to what you thought happens after death.