And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; (Luke 21:25) [Archive]

seven

09-08-2005, 09:20 PM

All throughout history a planetary conjunction (especially of this magnitude) was considered a major event. The Lord said there would be great planetary events and other signs in space preceding his return, so it's significant in that respect.

Was it supposed to bring Armageddon? Armageddon according to the Bible is a battle. It's the battle where God finally steps in and takes over the world and runs it the way it should have been run all along. It's the start of an peaceful and bountiful time known by some as the Millennium. (Revelations 20)

But certain things must happen first. The Bible tells us that the world will be run by a dictator heading up a worldwide government. This man (also known as the Antichrist) will rise to power on a wave of world euphoria, as he temporarily saves the world from its desperate economic, military & political problems with a brilliant 7-year plan for world peace, economic stability & religious freedom. (Read more about that here)

Although most of the world will initially hail the Beast as a political savior, three-and-a-half years after the enactment of the seven-year covenant, he will revoke the peace pact and show his true colors. He will outlaw all religions, except the worship of himself and proclaim himself saviour. The Bible tells us that the Antichrist's reign will last 7 years after which Jesus will return and Armageddon will take place.

So although this alignment is one of the signs which proves we are living in the times foretold in the scriptures, it's not a end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it on that date.

seven

09-08-2005, 09:21 PM

Well, it looks like there wasn't an overwhelming amount of Y2K bugs left when the year 2000 came. It was anyone's guess really how much or how little would happen. Many people associated the Year 2000 with Jesus' return or at least Armageddon.

Does that mean that the "Endtime" (or Last Days, Armageddon) is not happening, called off, and now everything's back to normal? Couldn't be further from it.

Armageddon, is a battle which takes place at the end of a 7 year rule of a One World Government. According to the Bible this Government is headed by a Dictator, known by some as the Antichrist. He purports to be the savior of the world. Among other things he could have used a Y2K type scenario to come to power, but it seems it's not yet.

Armageddon isn't in the year 2000. Although the events leading up to it could start soon, perhaps even this year, things get darker before Jesus returns. According to the Bible the Battle of Armageddon is when God finally takes over and rules the world the way it should have been ruled all along. It's a new and wonderful beginning.

How do we know it's going to take place any time soon? Well before leaving the Earth Jesus gave his disciples signs. Things that would precede His return. These signs are greatly expounded on at our site, but suffice it to say that all of them are happening right now and with great intensity.

Jesus promised (in Matthew 24:34) that the generation that sees these signs would be around when he returns.

seven

09-08-2005, 09:22 PM

History has proven the unerring accuracy of Bible prophecy. Many secular events were foretold hundreds of years before they happened. Literally hundreds of prophecies in the Bible have already come to pass. So there's really no doubt about whether the prophecies dealing with the "Last Days" and the time preceding Jesus' coming and Armageddon will come to pass. The only question is when?

The Countdown to Armageddon site shows that many of the Signs which Jesus said would precede His coming again are happening all around us.

seven

09-08-2005, 09:23 PM

One of the purposes of Endtime Bible prophecy is to let you know what's going to happen in the future so that you won't be taken by surprise by these great events, so you can rest assured that it is all a part of God's pre-ordained plan.

The best way to be prepared for the future is to receive Jesus as your Savior, as He has promised to be with His children to protect & provide for them and be their Guide through perilous times. Jesus will give you the strength and courage to bravely face these future troubles and help you survive until the End of this world, after which He will reward you beyond your wildest dreams in the Heavenly world to come!

(All pasted from countdown.org, I found it interesting.... anyones thoughts?)

Soulja2Luv

09-10-2005, 05:07 AM

seven

09-10-2005, 06:44 PM

Actually i find you 2 B very WISE!
And if you could shed some light on the last alignment the WISE few saw . And was Jesus born during another weird alignment?Also do you no anything about the AZTECS and the calender they used? Or anything about the predictions of there astrologists? THEY 2 predict a sudden change and END! And if Jesus was born again hopefully it wont B in america it could turn out like a david caresh story N waco!

Well, the Astromoners noticed that June or July 17th, 0002 B.C.E. that the North Star was actually Saturn and Jupiter aligned together. Saturn was in front of Jupiter so to the ancients it look like a "bright North Star"

Also, the 3 Wisemen in the hebrew words were called "Maji" which the word Magic has derived from.

Actually at the time the term Maji was referred to top Astromoners and Scientist who were highly respected for their time. I found this to be quite interesting.

I know a little bit here and there about the Aztecs and also the Mayan calanders. (They're kind of the same, right?)

I gotta take off to work! I'll get back to this later!

seven

09-11-2005, 02:42 AM

Also do you no anything about the AZTECS and the calender they used? Or anything about the predictions of there astrologists? THEY 2 predict a sudden change and END!!

I've been studying the significance of numbers for a little while. My girlfriend and I were studying it for fun. It was amazing how accurate it was compared to the people we knew.

In the beginning things would be said like, "Oh, I bet Jennifer's birthpath is a 3!" then I'd run to the calander and search for her birthdate and add it up... "I knew it!"

This was a fun thing to start.

Interesting note: When the London Bombings happened I reconized the date:

07/07/2005

In Numerology you reduce the year so 2005 would be 2+0+0+5=7

I reconized 7/7/7... Of course that clicked a switch...

Okay, I don't know if you are aware of the Mayan calander and the big deal about it ending in the year 2012.

I have so much more I could get into with the numbers but it's just so much to explain! But this is pretty easy...

I caculated from that date (when I noticed the 777 sequence) that it was 7 years away from the year 2012. This had a really mysterious connection for me because I had been pondering this year 2012.

Needless to say, my attention was being called to reconize 3, and then seven, and now I'm on 11. But this is also a lot to get into!

If there is any numbers that you have been noticing, especially in seqence (for example you pay for something $3.33 or you look at the clock 3:33 (oh like I just did! and it is! WEIRD AGAIN!)

Let me know! They don't have to be 3's. 11:11 ... 2:22, you get the gist! Actually, if you have reconized any numbers that follow you around (Mine was 26) lemme know about that too, I'll tell you about what it could possibly mean.

seven

09-11-2005, 02:59 AM

And if Jesus was born again hopefully it wont B in america it could turn out like a david caresh story N waco!

MICHEAL ERIC DYSON Quoted:

Two things about theocracy. First of all, the genius of America was the disestablishment clause. The fact is when you say no religion can prevail, all of them can prevail in their own sphere. It doesn't mean that religion can't have an impact on the public sphere. It simply means we won't officially sanctify it.

Number two: I'm a Jesus Freak. I'm an ordained Baptist minister. I'm tired of all the “pub” and the publicity going toward right wing evangelicals who have a denunciatory politics that disses everybody God was concerned about.

If Jesus came here as the mother of – as the son of a teen mother, wasn't married to her husband, lived in poverty, went over to Egypt looking for a way out – and that means that he got stuck there because he looked like the people who were there, people of color – and grew up to die from capital punishment, hanging out with his peeps, I'm telling you, that's the kind of God I'm talking about, and that's the kind of God who identifies with everybody.

(I had to share that quote from Michael Eric Dyson... I liked it... also, I saw a quote that I'd have to agree with, "If Jesus came back we would kill him again!" )

Would you disagree?

Soulja2Luv

09-11-2005, 03:16 AM

The number 23 seems 2 be the 1 that sticks out from team jersey num 2 big change es in my life@and after 23 .And now @ 32 i have had BIG things change from love 2 career 2 habits! My favorite number is 7 like 7777777 is a pasword i use.And the 2012 part of the calendar i am aware of the thing that gets me is the part that our objects will have a part n the end and it is a sign 2 watch 4!

>>Flyboy<<

09-11-2005, 02:35 PM

Just started reading this Seven, you bring up some intersting things, but in the end times the "abomination and descreation" needs to happen - this is found in Daniel......

Wallis

09-11-2005, 08:12 PM

To believe that the writer(s) of Daniel were talking eschatological prophecies is to also believe that there will be an End-Times.

I have or have had a couple of books that have explored the End Times, and the bottom line is that people have been expecting the End Times to occur in their lifetimes for thousands of years.

One book I have enjoyed reading is Catastrophobia by Barbara Hand Clow. She makes a case that the End Times occurred around 12 to 13 thousand years ago, when mankind literally had to go underground to survive hundreds of years of minimal existence before they could crawl out to a brand new world. It is her claim that this End Times was so terrific that we modern people still have a repressed collective memory of those times and are fearful that another End Times is upon us.

Well, if the Mayans are correct, then we are due for another epoch of Creation change. One only has to look at each 3,000-year cycle to see that bad things have happen and probably will continue to happen.

As far as the Christ being born again, this is pure Hollywood invention. The messengers stated that "you" will see the son of Man coming back in the clouds.

I would worry more about an invasion from ET than a second return of the Christ. If it happens, it happens. Meanwhile, there is a lot more important work to be done among our brethern than to be worrying about an End Time. If you believe, you are saved. Period. If you believe, then witness by showing the Light of your Faith. I'm not advocating prosyletizing. Most of us are not cut out for that specialized witnessing nor called to it.

seven

09-12-2005, 12:30 AM

Wallis, trust me, I'm not stressed out about it...

Just curious about it. I find it interesting just like I find the JFK assisnation quite interesting or all the obviously suspicious facts about 9/11 (that go beyond anything I saw on the Michael Moore documentary, so if you're going there... give me more credit... please!)

Just like these two things that have a lot of things that do not connect, I find it fascinating when things do connect and like to theorize...

I'm having a "seven" cycle... and as we discussed or as your websites you directed states: than we know that 7 is connected with analyzation and forming your own opinion based on what you analyze trying to avoid it based on another's opinion (that's where the loner part of 7 comes in).

So just like JFK, and 9/11 amongest a variety of other interest I have, like the Mayan Calander, and when the Bible gives signs of end times....

To stress out about it would be as productive as freaking out everyday that their other cars on the road! (Especially Asian Female Drivers like me! LOL)

I can't do anything about the JFK Assignation, or 9/11 Attacks, or for that matter THE END TIMES... but I sure do enjoy reading and learning clues that have been left behind for me to analyze.

There are so many more things to stress out about than the end of times, like what the heck is going on NOW! And we shall continue our discussions on this, I'm sure of it!

Wallis

09-12-2005, 03:26 AM

You know--and this will sound weird--if not to you then others--I'm not even stressed out on the NOW.

People have called me crazy before. I suppose I enjoy being just as crazy as people tell me I am.

This latest example of moving to the Philippines was crazy in the eyes of so many of my "friends." "What are you going to do?" "How are you going to live?" Etc.

I have that kind of faith that just says "it's gonna work out just fine."

Heck. We are all going to die some day. Some philosophers believe that we set up the manner of our deaths through our actions today. So, I don't worry, and I don't care.

I "lost" just about everything of my old life when I moved to the Philippines. You know what? I've gotten all of it back and then some.

It's just that little mustard seed of faith and remembering the words: "Why do you worry about tomorrow?"

seven

09-12-2005, 07:34 AM

I NO WORRY!

I told you! It's interesting...

It's also nice to be prepared for some things, if at all possible. Of course, I'm not talking about the End of the World at the moment.

What about, watching the weather man, predicting the weather. If you know it's gonna be cold outside, you prepare by bringing a jacket.

If it's not as cold as he thought, well, bringing the jacket didn't hurt? (Unless you paid the weather man and bought from him some over priced crystals!)

Did you not catch my JFK and 9/11 comparison? These things are in the past and these things I can not change but I sure will stop the channel because I'm interested in the clues that were left. If you think about it, studying about End Times is actually about studying history, ancient science, etc...

I wouldn't worry about me obsessing about the End of The World. It's just one of my many interest, like politics, sketching, painting, astrology, tarot, charka's, taroh, kabala,bible, wicca, koran, i ching, numerology, buddism, ancient egypt, ancient rome, atlantis, esp, making hand made soap, hand made candles, cooking, physics, quantum physics, psychology, history, bible codes, eastern and western philosphy etc...

Oh yes! Of Course! My children and my husband too! :D

>>Flyboy<<

09-12-2005, 03:30 PM

Did you not catch my JFK and 9/11 comparison? These things are in the past and these things I can not change but I sure will stop the channel because I'm interested in the clues that were left.

What do you want to know about the JFK assassination? I've studied this subject for about 20 years, although no expert, I understand who killed him and why....

As for a 9-11, no conspiricy - terrorist morons slammed hijacked aircraft into buildings - simple. Michael Mooore is a "MOOREON," there's no hidden facts - My father in law worked with the pilot of flight 93 - there was no fighters shooting down airplanes and no Saudi family members scurrying out of the country after the attack.....

seven

09-13-2005, 03:48 PM

As for a 9-11, no conspiricy - terrorist morons slammed hijacked aircraft into buildings - simple. Michael Mooore is a "MOOREON," there's no hidden facts - My father in law worked with the pilot of flight 93 - there was no fighters shooting down airplanes and no Saudi family members scurrying out of the country after the attack.....

Oh no... we'll have to start a whole new tread on the 9/11 Conspiracy. There are things that do not add up... Yes, I believe there were some idiots that flew planes into buildings (maybe), but it's not that simple...

There are to many things that do not add up.... Have you even tried to look into that?

If you enjoy investigating JFK, I assure you, you will enjoy 9/11 just the same.

>>Flyboy<<

09-13-2005, 06:28 PM

Oh no... we'll have to start a whole new tread on the 9/11 Conspiracy. There are things that do not add up... Yes, I believe there were some idiots that flew planes into buildings (maybe), but it's not that simple...

There are to many things that do not add up.... Have you even tried to look into that?

If you enjoy investigating JFK, I assure you, you will enjoy 9/11 just the same.

I got the JFK thread going on the political forum. I looked into 9-11 "conspiricies" a long time ago. I work in the aviation field, my father in law flys for United (and was close friends with Jayson Dahl, the pilot of flight 93) and I was part of the military. Additionally I was in an airport control tower later in the day on 911 and actually witnessed the closing of civilian airspace during that period. Anything about F-16s shooting down aircraft or a missile hitting the Pentagon is just BS!

seven

09-13-2005, 08:55 PM

I got the JFK thread going on the political forum. I looked into 9-11 "conspiricies" a long time ago. I work in the aviation field, my father in law flys for United (and was close friends with Jayson Dahl, the pilot of flight 93) and I was part of the military. Additionally I was in an airport control tower later in the day on 911 and actually witnessed the closing of civilian airspace during that period. Anything about F-16s shooting down aircraft or a missile hitting the Pentagon is just BS!

Okay.... I didn't say anything about F-16 shooting down aircraft or a missle hitting the Pentagon...

That doesn't mean that the alleged facts don't match or add up. There are plenty of magic bullets flying around September 11, trust me. (Maybe they used tactics than a stupid magic bullet, but they were definately flying around! )

>>Flyboy<<

09-14-2005, 08:19 AM

What do think don't add up?

cob1639

09-14-2005, 04:28 PM

What do think don't add up?

Ok Flyman - lemme jump in here. I'm not too big of a conspiracy man myself, but there are ideosynchracies that weren't explained. (I don't even know what that word means but it sounds good!)

Keeping it as simple as possible (and as non partisan) ALL the of the videos of all the planes hitting the the twin towers have a noticable flash BEFORE they hit the building. They are shown from different angles so they can't be explained as light reflections. Even the ONE video of the first plane hitting had that same flash. BEFORE impact. That indicates detonation prior to impact.

The Pentagon has about a billion cameras around the perimeter of the building. All of them are facing in different directions and NONE of them caught the impact or an airplane - now come on. Only that one from across the street, which shows no airplane. Not saying a missle hit it - just that there was possibly no video on purpose.

Look at the footage if you don't believe me. I don't think Bush did it or let it happen, or the illumaniti or whatever - just that these things don't add up. The 9/11 commission was little better than the Warren commission.

There's plenty more if you're really interested...I only chose these two because they are easy - but these things can't just be explained away or the 9/11 commission would have done just that!

>>Flyboy<<

09-14-2005, 05:37 PM

Ok Flyman - lemme jump in here. I'm not too big of a conspiracy man myself, but there are ideosynchracies that weren't explained. (I don't even know what that word means but it sounds good!)

Keeping it as simple as possible (and as non partisan) ALL the of the videos of all the planes hitting the the twin towers have a noticable flash BEFORE they hit the building. They are shown from different angles so they can't be explained as light reflections. Even the ONE video of the first plane hitting had that same flash. BEFORE impact. That indicates detonation prior to impact.

Can't explain that but I heard that before - there is no doubt they hit the building. If I was chasing a conspiricy or something to explain that, my guess would be there was a bomb on the plane detonated on impact. In either case the outcome would be the same. I would just ask why that wasn'y identified.....

The Pentagon has about a billion cameras around the perimeter of the building. All of them are facing in different directions and NONE of them caught the impact or an airplane - now come on. Only that one from across the street, which shows no airplane. Not saying a missle hit it - just that there was possibly no video on purpose.

Look at the footage if you don't believe me. I don't think Bush did it or let it happen, or the illumaniti or whatever - just that these things don't add up. The 9/11 commission was little better than the Warren commission.

There's plenty more if you're really interested...I only chose these two because they are easy - but these things can't just be explained away or the 9/11 commission would have done just that!

Seen those - there are also pictures available that have engine nacelle fairings and small access panels that were thrown from the aircraft during impact. These were photographed on the lawn of the pentagon as the fires were being extinguished. There is also a photo from above the pentagon that shows part of the wing spar within the pentgon walls. This I got from another site....

"There was plenty of evidence of the airplane at the site including debris from the plane, as mentioned above, the remains of the passengers, and the cockpit data and voice recorders. Associated Press Military Writer Robert Burns reported on September 13,2001, that members of congress who had visited the Pentagon crash site were told by rescue officials that much of the fuselage of the Boeing 757 remained intact inside the damaged Pentagon."

Also there were numerous coroners assigned to identify the bodies, all but one was identified. If there was hanky panky I'm sure these folks would of spoke up immediately as they probably had the most teidous job in the aftermath......

cob1639

09-14-2005, 06:29 PM

I have not been convinced that anything besides a plane hit the Pentagon. That being said, I still haven't seen any pictures of any airplane debris in the pile. I prefer pictures or video footage to eyewitness testimony, especially under suspicious circumstances. Of all the video cameras around the Pentagon - I should have seen a better video of the impact, or at least an incoming plane.

Most explosives experts agree that the fireball that was caught by the camera across the street, does not match a typical jet fuel accelarated fireball.

...again, I'm not saying the 9/11 commission story was a complete lie. They just didn't explain it to MY satisfaction. Congressional commissions usually dont. I guess I could say that I believe there were 19 Muslim extremest hijackers, but they may have had help from people in our government. If not in the attack - then at least with the possible (and probable) cover up. Maybe inspired to carry out that cover up by business intrests, oil interests or other governments interests.

7 will give you more stuff to consider, I'm sure - but she and I have different views on that. I rely on more objective evidence, she takes many subjective details and brings her own intelligence and opinion to bare on them.

>>Flyboy<<

09-14-2005, 09:35 PM

I prefer pictures or video footage to eyewitness testimony, especially under suspicious circumstances. Of all the video cameras around the Pentagon - I should have seen a better video of the impact, or at least an incoming plane. I've seen them on line - I'll try to find the link...

Most explosives experts agree that the fireball that was caught by the camera across the street, does not match a typical jet fuel accelarated fireball.
Explosive Experts - not "aircraft accident experts." I doubt anyone could tell you the fireball pattern of a 757 hitting a hugh brick wall at 350 mph....

...again, I'm not saying the 9/11 commission story was a complete lie. They just didn't explain it to MY satisfaction. Congressional commissions usually dont. I guess I could say that I believe there were 19 Muslim extremest hijackers, but they may have had help from people in our government. If not in the attack - then at least with the possible (and probable) cover up. Maybe inspired to carry out that cover up by business intrests, oil interests or other governments interests. Something as important as this should of been investigated for 5 years. I don't think there was a cover-up per say, information might have been omitted to enhance further investigation.

7 will give you more stuff to consider, I'm sure - but she and I have different views on that. I rely on more objective evidence, she takes many subjective details and brings her own intelligence and opinion to bare on them.

I'd like to hear what she says - Oh and I though about your comment on the "flashes" on the WTC aircraft before they hit - I believe they were reflections off the wings and horizontal stabilizers on the UA aircraft, off the entire aircraft for the AA aircraft. Even though you saw them at different angles, you're going to get one point of the aircraft reflecting sunlight. The UA aircraft wings and horizontal stabilizers are silver and partially polished, the entire AA aircraft is polished aluminum. Even the painted potions of the UA aircraft are very glossy and cast lots of glare in direct sunlight.

trusso

09-19-2005, 11:20 PM

Sorry to burst an conspiracy bubbles here, but my friend is in the carpenter's union and was working on the roof of a building 2 blocks away from the entire WTC episode. He watched as the plane came from the south and thought to himself (planes never fly this low over Manhatten). He watched it as it hit the building as close as you would ever want to be with it. There was no flash. It went straight into the building. He watched in disbelief. So, take that theory and squash it as a "conspiracy urban legend". No pre-explosions. Just straight into the building. Even more disturbing was when he volunteered to work at the triage and they were teaching him how to look for IDs and what to do if someone runs up to him with their guts falling out. It was a terrible day for all, epecially when no one could even leave the city most of the day.

Tony

>>Flyboy<<

09-20-2005, 07:48 AM

Welcome trusso and thanks for the information. At the Pentagon, all that was left of that aircraft were tiny bits of aluminum and part of the wing main spar that was photographed - I used to do aircraft salvage and when an aircraft hits something at high speed and explodes there is usually little left - compressed pieces of burnt aluminum.

The conspiricy about flight 93 getting shot down is just plain BS. To conceal the fact that a US warplane shot down a civilian airliner would be almost impossible. First you got the pilot, his ground crew, air traffic controllers, base personnel and a host of others who would know something like this happened. In the 1980s the US Navy mistakenly shot down an Iranian airliner, they admitted fault and paid reperations.....

Pierre Sallanger tried to rase conspiricy theories about TWA flight 800. He first said that a US Navy P-3 fired a harpoon missle at it - IMPOSSIBLE! I worked on both aircraft and missle and I could tell you it can't happen......

cob1639

09-21-2005, 04:33 AM

Sorry to burst an conspiracy bubbles here

I don't like conspiracies either. I think they're mainly pretty goofy. Alas, I can't accept one persons account of what he thinks he saw as a fact. No offense to your friend or anything but if you asked 10 people who watched a car crash you'll get 10 different stories.

The gov't has proven to me that they lie on occasion - just look at the magic bullet theory. I just think the 9/11 commission was a joke, like all congressional commissions. The flash is on every one of the recordings. Every one. No matter which angle you look at it. That should have at least been addressed by the 9/11 commission. That omission makes me suspect what else they could be covering up.

...And I'm not blaming Bush or Clinton or anybody else - I'm just saying that it is either a cover up or utter incompetence of the 9/11 commission. Which is worse?

cob1639

09-21-2005, 04:37 AM

The conspiricy about flight 93 getting shot down is just plain BS. To conceal the fact that a US warplane shot down a civilian airliner would be almost impossible. First you got the pilot, his ground crew, air traffic controllers, base personnel and a host of others who would know something like this happened. In the 1980s the US Navy mistakenly shot down an Iranian airliner, they admitted fault and paid reperations.....

Yeah - I don't believe that one either. There's about a billion conspiracies about 9/11. I just believe what I can see on those videos. But they always say - the bigger the lie, the more people will believe it!

>>Flyboy<<

09-21-2005, 08:08 AM

I don't like conspiracies either. I think they're mainly pretty goofy. Alas, I can't accept one persons account of what he thinks he saw as a fact. No offense to your friend or anything but if you asked 10 people who watched a car crash you'll get 10 different stories.

The gov't has proven to me that they lie on occasion - just look at the magic bullet theory. I just think the 9/11 commission was a joke, like all congressional commissions. The flash is on every one of the recordings. Every one. No matter which angle you look at it. That should have at least been addressed by the 9/11 commission. That omission makes me suspect what else they could be covering up.

...And I'm not blaming Bush or Clinton or anybody else - I'm just saying that it is either a cover up or utter incompetence of the 9/11 commission. Which is worse?

I think what you'll find in 9-11 there wasn't a cover up per se, but an omission of some the facts. Our intellegance community screwed up, security measrues at airports were inadequte for a threat that was identified and government agencies refused to share vital information that might of prevented this - the government doesn't totally want to admit they were made to look like asses!

Kennedy was another thing. Rouge elements in the government along with "contractors" did their own thing and little was done to bring them down. Common people were bullied and murdered by these people who were not part of the government but did the bidding of those with power and authority. I believe that when Nixion went down, so did some of those who were responsible. Eventually Carlos Marchello went down, so did Sam Giancana, when their influence and money couldn't buy their way out. On the other end of the spectrum the Kennedy influence ended because the "Curly Joe" of the 3, Teddy showed what an idiot he really was! Although still weilding political power, the White House Tammany Hall dreamed by Joe Kennedy never materialized.

Again, I never approved of the Kennedy's, what they represented and what they planned for this country but no one had the right to take them out they way they did! :mad: