World War 3

[Alexander the Great]

During this days the west is facing ( especialy Israel ) World War 3.
Iran will be the cause because of her nuclear weapon.
They want to erase Israel.
:mad: :mad: :eek:
War will be declared soon.

[>>Flyboy<<]

During this days the west is facing ( especialy Israel ) World War 3.
Iran will be the cause because of her nuclear weapon.
They want to erase Israel.
:mad: :mad: :eek:
War will be declared soon.

Even if Iran has a nuke, delivering it will be a problem. Most of their American aircraft are becomming unservicable. The Chinese produts they fly are second rate at best. Although they have some missles, Israel has a missle defense system that probably works better thatn anything we tried to develope (Patriot) Even though Iran and Syria seemed to be aligned, Arab military alliances don't work well (Israel proved that in 67' ans 72'). If Iran tries something, I think Israel will just thump them, and more than likely Israel has nukes as well (and has had them for years). I think thr Iranians will suffer dearly.

[Alexander the Great]

Even if Iran has a nuke, delivering it will be a problem. Most of their American aircraft are becomming unservicable. The Chinese produts they fly are second rate at best. Although they have some missles, Israel has a missle defense system that probably works better thatn anything we tried to develope (Patriot) Even though Iran and Syria seemed to be aligned, Arab military alliances don't work well (Israel proved that in 67' ans 72'). If Iran tries something, I think Israel will just thump them, and more than likely Israel has nukes as well (and has had them for years). I think thr Iranians will suffer dearly.

So do I.
But Israel cannot stand massive Islamic attack for the long
range, unless she'll use Nuclear Weapon.

[>>Flyboy<<]

So do I.
But Israel cannot stand massive Islamic attack for the long
range, unless she'll use Nuclear Weapon.

:eek: OH SHE WILL!

[Alexander the Great]

:confused: :mad: :eek: :eek: OH SHE WILL!

How can she?
She'll be has to form an alliance with someone.

[>>Flyboy<<]

I think she got enough nukes to take out the whole region right now and she probably had them for years! :eek:

[Alexander the Great]

I think she got enough nukes to take out the whole region right now and she probably had them for years! :eek:

In case of WW3 we'll be have to use them.
You think toward where.

[>>Flyboy<<]

In case of WW3 we'll be have to use them.
You think toward where.

:eek: During Desert Storm I remember one of the British Field commanders stating that if Iraq used chemical weapons, he had the authorization to use field nukes (low yield nukes that would be fired from a howitzer, could probably take out about 10 city blocks). I don't remember this guy's name, but that news report was quickly taken off the air. I believe it will be a similar scenero :eek:

[Alexander the Great]

:eek: During Desert Storm I remember one of the British Field commanders stating that if Iraq used chemical weapons, he had the authorization to use field nukes (low yield nukes that would be fired from a howitzer, could probably take out about 10 city blocks). I don't remember this guy's name, but that news report was quickly taken off the air. I believe it will be a similar scenero :eek:

I hope that in the end we won't be have to use them.
You know by the way, that there's no Iraqi nation, no Lebanese, no Syrian,
no Egyptian, and no Jordanian. They're only the descendants of the Arabs who conquered this regions.

An evidence to their hate:
During the Israeli independence war,
the destroyed every Synagogue within their controll.
We didn't touch one Mosque.

[Alexander the Great]

You know, you seem a smart guy.

But, just think of all the damage that this war will
cause.

And how Israel will manage it without the US support?

[>>Flyboy<<]

You know, you seem a smart guy.

But, just think of all the damage that this war will
cause.

And how Israel will manage it without the US support?

I think Israel may be able to pull off what she did in the 67 war, but some how she will need our help. At this point in time, I don't think Egypt and Syria will attempt to do anything, both of them got thumped pretty bad the last time they tried something, especially Syria, who lost her nearly her whole airforce in the Becca Valley in the mid 1980s, the Israeli AF ad a kill ratio of something like 75 to 1!

We have to see what countries like Iran will attempt to do :rolleyes:

[Alexander the Great]

I think Israel may be able to pull off what she did in the 67 war, but some how she will need our help. At this point in time, I don't think Egypt and Syria will attempt to do anything, both of them got thumped pretty bad the last time they tried something, especially Syria, who lost her nearly her whole airforce in the Becca Valley in the mid 1980s, the Israeli AF ad a kill ratio of something like 75 to 1!

We have to see what countries like Iran will attempt to do :rolleyes:

You are definitely right.

But what should we do with Iran?

[>>Flyboy<<]

You are definitely right.

But what should we do with Iran?

Iran has been a problem child since the 1970s. I think once Iraq is stabilized (and i believe that day will come soon), permanent, secured and highly capable bases should be set up on the Iranian borders with Iraq and Afganistan. On those bases I would deploy hundreds of attack aircraft, troops, ballistic missles and even nukes. I would also deploy a major naval battle group into the Persian Gulf. At this point Iran has an ultimatium, give up its nuclear policy, stop the support of terrorism and we dismantle the military threat in your back yard and we send everyone home. If not, you're the next Iraq! CONTINUE SENDING A STRONG MESSAGE TO THE ARMPIT OF THE WORLD!

Confront terrorist countries, don't hide behind wishy washy politics :mad:

[Alexander the Great]

Iran has been a problem child since the 1970s. I think once Iraq is stabilized (and i believe that day will come soon), permanent, secured and highly capable bases should be set up on the Iranian borders with Iraq and Afganistan. On those bases I would deploy hundreds of attack aircraft, troops, ballistic missles and even nukes. I would also deploy a major naval battle group into the Persian Gulf. At this point Iran has an ultimatium, give up its nuclear policy, stop the support of terrorism and we dismantle the military threat in your back yard and we send everyone home. If not, you're the next Iraq! CONTINUE SENDING A STRONG MESSAGE TO THE ARMPIT OF THE WORLD!

Confront terrorist countries, don't hide behind wishy washy politics :mad:


You're right, but if the US will invade Iran
the whole Muslim World will be united.
and that's the last thing we need.

Even though I say to attack the Nuclear " Powerplants " in Iran
which are used to produce Nuclear weapon in order to destroy
Israel.

If we won't act briefly, the 3rd total war will erupt
soon then we expect.

Please spread this to everyone you know.

[The sweed]

Iran has been a problem child since the 1970s. I think once Iraq is stabilized (and i believe that day will come soon), permanent, secured and highly capable bases should be set up on the Iranian borders with Iraq and Afganistan. On those bases I would deploy hundreds of attack aircraft, troops, ballistic missles and even nukes. I would also deploy a major naval battle group into the Persian Gulf. At this point Iran has an ultimatium, give up its nuclear policy, stop the support of terrorism and we dismantle the military threat in your back yard and we send everyone home. If not, you're the next Iraq! CONTINUE SENDING A STRONG MESSAGE TO THE ARMPIT OF THE WORLD!

Confront terrorist countries, don't hide behind wishy washy politics :mad:


1. You are talking about Iran as a problemchild ... what do you mean by that? In what way are they a child of USA? This county is one of the first ever settled so if anything USA is their child.

2. You are saying Iraq will be stabalized, but how? By USA deploying enough troops in their country to control them? This is not the answer and I can't belive americans don't understand this. The western world have had troops in this region for about 1000 years now and it haven't helped in the past.

3. You are saying you should deploy nuclear weapons in the area in order to prevent them from developing their own nuclear weapons. Is USA really ready to use these weapons ... AGAIN? You have allready used nuclear weapons atleast twice against major civilian cities, didn't you learn a lesson by that? If you use it again you won't see the world as forgiving as it's been in the past.

4. Why should Iran be forced to dismantle their nuclear program if USA is not forced to the same action? Instead USA are developing someting called "tactical nukes". You've got to be kidding me!

5. In order to stop supporting terrorism you need to support it to begin with! There is no evidence what so ever that Iran, Iraq or any other country in that region are supporting terrorists and there never have been.

6. How can you call this area "the armpit of the world"? I belive the declaration of indipendence contain the words "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness". So stop trying to degrade them and imply that you are better or more important then they are, cause you're not.
_________________________________________________

The sollution to the problems in the world does not involve using military force, but instead patience, negotiatons and understanding. If you knew a bit about the history of the middle-east you would know that they've been subject to violance and opression from the western world since the first crusades. We must take the first step to a peaceful sollution. We have to set a good example for them to follow, we can't expect them to take the first step after what we've done over the last millenium.

Stop seeing USA as the "good guys" and start realizing there are no good or bad guys, only humans with different values and cultures that we need to start respecting. Instead of asking "what can we do to stop Iran", ask yourselves "what can we do for Iran to convince them to stop on their own". That would be a step in the right direction instead of just bombing them and creating more suffering, death and ultimatly more enemies to America.

I hope you take my words into consideration and reply apropriatly instead of just saying "shut up or we'll bomb you aswell" like americans tend to do a lot of the time.

[The sweed]

You're right, but if the US will invade Iran
the whole Muslim World will be united.
and that's the last thing we need.

Even though I say to attack the Nuclear " Powerplants " in Iran
which are used to produce Nuclear weapon in order to destroy
Israel.

If we won't act briefly, the 3rd total war will erupt
soon then we expect.

Please spread this to everyone you know.

What you don't understand is that arabs don't care about Iran, they are persians not arabs. And they don't even share the same religon, they are like catholics and protestants. Iran have no interest in attacking Israel, but would be more likely to strike against Syria, Kurdistan, Saudi Arabia, Iraq or UAE with whom they have a history of fighting. Their ultimate goal is to free Saudi Arabia and the holy cities there from the current and exremely conservative rulers. This is also Usama Bin Ladens ultimate goal, belive it or not.

If anyone would be responsible for starting the 3rd WW it would be USA. It might even be that you have triggered it already, who knows.

[malcolan]

The sollution to the problems in the world does not involve using military force, but instead patience, negotiatons and understanding. If you knew a bit about the history of the middle-east you would know that they've been subject to violance and opression from the western world since the first crusades. We must take the first step to a peaceful sollution. We have to set a good example for them to follow, we can't expect them to take the first step after what we've done over the last millenium.

Stop seeing USA as the "good guys" and start realizing there are no good or bad guys, only humans with different values and cultures that we need to start respecting. Instead of asking "what can we do to stop Iran", ask yourselves "what can we do for Iran to convince them to stop on their own". That would be a step in the right direction instead of just bombing them and creating more suffering, death and ultimatly more enemies to America.

I hope you take my words into consideration and reply apropriatly instead of just saying "shut up or we'll bomb you aswell" like americans tend to do a lot of the time.


Thanks for the input, Sweed. I knew that there must be some intelligent people out there who are capable of having a meaningful discussion for a change. I applaud your views on this, where are you from, anyway?

I would like to add that education and acceptance are the keys to real change. The fact is, we are all the same. We have just been conditioned differently. Wars haven't solved anything for the last 2000 years and they won't solve anything for the next 2000 years either. It just briefly changes the population and who holds most of the money.

Global education is what is needed. Everyone should be required to learn the cultures of others, not necessarily agree with them, but learn about them. When everybody can begin to understand why people are different in their beliefs, then peace is closer. :cool:

[The sweed]

I'm Swedish ;)

[>>Flyboy<<]

Thanks for the input, Sweed. I knew that there must be some intelligent people out there who are capable of having a meaningful discussion for a change. I applaud your views on this, where are you from, anyway?

I would like to add that education and acceptance are the keys to real change. The fact is, we are all the same. We have just been conditioned differently. Wars haven't solved anything for the last 2000 years and they won't solve anything for the next 2000 years either. It just briefly changes the population and who holds most of the money.

Global education is what is needed. Everyone should be required to learn the cultures of others, not necessarily agree with them, but learn about them. When everybody can begin to understand why people are different in their beliefs, then peace is closer. :cool:

What you say is very idealistic and while I applaud you I also see you are very naive. You want global education, start with the clerics who are teaching young musilm men that all westerners are infadels and should be destroyed. Start there and maybe others will follow suit!

[>>Flyboy<<]

1. You are talking about Iran as a problemchild ... what do you mean by that? In what way are they a child of USA? This county is one of the first ever settled so if anything USA is their child.

2. You are saying Iraq will be stabalized, but how? By USA deploying enough troops in their country to control them? This is not the answer and I can't belive americans don't understand this. The western world have had troops in this region for about 1000 years now and it haven't helped in the past.

3. You are saying you should deploy nuclear weapons in the area in order to prevent them from developing their own nuclear weapons. Is USA really ready to use these weapons ... AGAIN? You have allready used nuclear weapons atleast twice against major civilian cities, didn't you learn a lesson by that? If you use it again you won't see the world as forgiving as it's been in the past.

4. Why should Iran be forced to dismantle their nuclear program if USA is not forced to the same action? Instead USA are developing someting called "tactical nukes". You've got to be kidding me!

5. In order to stop supporting terrorism you need to support it to begin with! There is no evidence what so ever that Iran, Iraq or any other country in that region are supporting terrorists and there never have been.

6. How can you call this area "the armpit of the world"? I belive the declaration of indipendence contain the words "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness". So stop trying to degrade them and imply that you are better or more important then they are, cause you're not.
_________________________________________________

The sollution to the problems in the world does not involve using military force, but instead patience, negotiatons and understanding. If you knew a bit about the history of the middle-east you would know that they've been subject to violance and opression from the western world since the first crusades. We must take the first step to a peaceful sollution. We have to set a good example for them to follow, we can't expect them to take the first step after what we've done over the last millenium.

Stop seeing USA as the "good guys" and start realizing there are no good or bad guys, only humans with different values and cultures that we need to start respecting. Instead of asking "what can we do to stop Iran", ask yourselves "what can we do for Iran to convince them to stop on their own". That would be a step in the right direction instead of just bombing them and creating more suffering, death and ultimatly more enemies to America.

I hope you take my words into consideration and reply apropriatly instead of just saying "shut up or we'll bomb you aswell" like americans tend to do a lot of the time.

TELL THAT TO THE HOSTAGES THAT WERE TAKEN IN LATE BY IRAINIAN RADICALS IN THE LATE 1970s. There IS proof that Iran and Iraq supported terrorsit groups for years and will continue to do so.

I don't want to see one more US Troop in "The ARMPIT OF THE WORLD," I want terrorism to stop, and the only way its going to stop is to elimiate those who prepetuate hatred, especially against my contry's population. Call me an "Ugly Amercian," I don't care what goes on there, I don't care about their politics, but I don't want to see any more 911s and as I said before if it takes "fire from the sky" to do it, so be it!

You sound like a UN Delegate - If it was up to me I would pull the US out of the UN too!

[The sweed]

You know what? That is the kind of reasoning that will make WW3 a reality. Is that what you want?

If it became a reality it wouldn't be the world against the muslims it would be far more complex then that and if you think that the US would go unharmed in a war like that you are plain stupid. I don't think you know what war is and what kind of suffering it leads to.

I'm not a delegate for the UN, but I served for one year in Bosnia and I'm gonna tell you a little story about an experience I had there. It was 2 weeks into my service and we got called out to a village where shooting had been reported. Our platoon was the first one to get there so we set up an observationpoint outside the village and then we sent 2 groups to secure the village. The village consisted of about 25-30 hoses lined up along the road that went through. Our group serched the houses on the right side and the other group took the houses on the left side. In the first house we walked into we found 2 dead bodies. One of an old man who had been tortured and then excecuted with a shoot at very close range in the neck. The other body was that of a woman who had got shoot in the forehead at very close range, most likely as a part of the torture. Later we found out that the woman was the old mans daugther. The second house we went into was empty, but in the 3rd I got my first realization what war does to people. We rushed to this house when we saw smoke coming out of it and heard women shouting from within. When we came into the house we found 2 young women, one 16 and the other 23, tied naked to a pole in the kitchen, both had been beaten and raped repetedly. When we first entered they went completely quiet beliving we were soldiers who had come back to kill them, but when they saw our uniforms they got hysterical and screamed incoherently. We saw flames coming from the oven and realized that something had been put in there to burn the house to the ground with the women still inside. We hurried to cut the women loose and then tried to carry them out of there and away from the smoke, they couldn't walk on there own after the treatment they had recived. Meanwhile 2 in our group put out the fire and realized that what had started burning in the oven was a blanket drenched in gasoline. They tossed this blanket out on the street through the window to stop it from setting the whole house on fire and when the blanket hit the ground it unfolded and something black rolled out of it. This black thing ended up only a few feet from where we had taken the women and I just stared at it ... This black thing that had been wrapped in a blanket, soaked with gasoline and then put in an oven was a 3 months old baby. I don't remember anything els from that day or the next. I think my brain went into some sort of protection mode and repressed everything until it felt safe again. I was later told that we found 28 bodies in the village, 4 of them women and 16 of them under the age of 12. Among these was a fetus and her mother who had had her stomach cut open to get the unborn out and then she had been left there to bleed to death with her dead fetus in her arms.

# weeks later we found out why this massacre had been taken place when massgraves containing 250 civilians who had been excecuted were discovered only 3 miles from that village. Most likely several of the men in the village had parttaken in this massacre and the opposing side just did what they considered to be a fair retaliation.

This story is nothing extraordinary in wars. On the contrary, things like these happen all the time. After what I can see you support this and want war. You have no idea what you are talking about! If you did you would never, EVER want it. If you do I consider you to be much more dangerous then any terrorist and I belive you belong at an institution where you can be safely kept from the rest of the world.

[>>Flyboy<<]

You know what? That is the kind of reasoning that will make WW3 a reality. Is that what you want?

If it became a reality it wouldn't be the world against the muslims it would be far more complex then that and if you think that the US would go unharmed in a war like that you are plain stupid. I don't think you know what war is and what kind of suffering it leads to.

I'm not a delegate for the UN, but I served for one year in Bosnia and I'm gonna tell you a little story about an experience I had there. It was 2 weeks into my service and we got called out to a village where shooting had been reported. Our platoon was the first one to get there so we set up an observationpoint outside the village and then we sent 2 groups to secure the village. The village consisted of about 25-30 hoses lined up along the road that went through. Our group serched the houses on the right side and the other group took the houses on the left side. In the first house we walked into we found 2 dead bodies. One of an old man who had been tortured and then excecuted with a shoot at very close range in the neck. The other body was that of a woman who had got shoot in the forehead at very close range, most likely as a part of the torture. Later we found out that the woman was the old mans daugther. The second house we went into was empty, but in the 3rd I got my first realization what war does to people. We rushed to this house when we saw smoke coming out of it and heard women shouting from within. When we came into the house we found 2 young women, one 16 and the other 23, tied naked to a pole in the kitchen, both had been beaten and raped repetedly. When we first entered they went completely quiet beliving we were soldiers who had come back to kill them, but when they saw our uniforms they got hysterical and screamed incoherently. We saw flames coming from the oven and realized that something had been put in there to burn the house to the ground with the women still inside. We hurried to cut the women loose and then tried to carry them out of there and away from the smoke, they couldn't walk on there own after the treatment they had recived. Meanwhile 2 in our group put out the fire and realized that what had started burning in the oven was a blanket drenched in gasoline. They tossed this blanket out on the street through the window to stop it from setting the whole house on fire and when the blanket hit the ground it unfolded and something black rolled out of it. This black thing ended up only a few feet from where we had taken the women and I just stared at it ... This black thing that had been wrapped in a blanket, soaked with gasoline and then put in an oven was a 3 months old baby. I don't remember anything els from that day or the next. I think my brain went into some sort of protection mode and repressed everything until it felt safe again. I was later told that we found 28 bodies in the village, 4 of them women and 16 of them under the age of 12. Among these was a fetus and her mother who had had her stomach cut open to get the unborn out and then she had been left there to bleed to death with her dead fetus in her arms.

# weeks later we found out why this massacre had been taken place when massgraves containing 250 civilians who had been excecuted were discovered only 3 miles from that village. Most likely several of the men in the village had parttaken in this massacre and the opposing side just did what they considered to be a fair retaliation.

This story is nothing extraordinary in wars. On the contrary, things like these happen all the time. After what I can see you support this and want war. You have no idea what you are talking about! If you did you would never, EVER want it. If you do I consider you to be much more dangerous then any terrorist and I belive you belong at an institution where you can be safely kept from the rest of the world.

Do you live in the US? If so GO BACK TO SWEEDEN, IF NOT DO SOMETHING ABOUT ME AND OTHER UGLY AMERCIANS. ITS AMAZING WHAT A B-52 COULD DO TO A SAAB!

[The sweed]

Do you live in the US? If so GO BACK TO SWEEDEN, IF NOT DO SOMETHING ABOUT ME AND OTHER UGLY AMERCIANS. ITS AMAZING WHAT A B-52 COULD DO TO A SAAB!

I specificly asked for this in a previous post:

I hope you take my words into consideration and reply apropriatly instead of just saying "shut up or we'll bomb you aswell" like americans tend to do a lot of the time.

Why don't you just nuke the whole world and kill everyone in it? This would surly take care of every single enemy that the US claims to have, foreign and domestic.

[Alexander the Great]

I specificly asked for this in a previous post:

I hope you take my words into consideration and reply apropriatly instead of just saying "shut up or we'll bomb you aswell" like americans tend to do a lot of the time.

Why don't you just nuke the whole world and kill everyone in it? This would surly take care of every single enemy that the US claims to have, foreign and domestic.


Sorry I didn't respond.
But the " Persians " are fanatics who want to kill us all, and in case you don't know, they declare it many many times.
But since you work in the UN, you're probably anti Israeli, because either this way or the other, the UN is anti semite and being ruled by money.
I hope Bush will brake this organization.

[The sweed]

Sorry I didn't respond.
But the " Persians " are fanatics who want to kill us all, and in case you don't know, they declare it many many times.
But since you work in the UN, you're probably anti Israeli, because either this way or the other, the UN is anti semite and being ruled by money.
I hope Bush will brake this organization.

I don't work for the UN, I did 1 years service for them about 10 years ago. Today I consider the UN to be an organization of the past that has had their time and should make way for something new. This new organization should put preasure on everyone who have or are developing nucler, biological or chemical weapons, not just the countris who are convenient to criticize. Furthermore there should be no such thing as vetos or constant members of important counsils. Instead each coutry should recive a certain number of votes. A global organization of some sort is needed to carry on much of the work done by the UN today. UNICEF, UNIFEM, UNAIDS, UNESCO and WHO are just a few examples of suborganizations doing an excellent job that can't be discarded. On the other hand the UN have lost most of their political credibility and needs to be modernized somehow.

I'm not in any way anti israeli, but I'm neither anti muslim. I've lived a couple of years in Saudi Arabia, I've met many Israelis in the course of my travels and I've visited Israel on 3 occations. I like certain parts and traditions of both cultures and don't want to see either lost. I do however see a need for stabalization and peaace in the region. Both of you need to look past your differences and find a way to work towards a common goal that all sides can agree on.

Anyway, why the hell does it feel like I am defending myself all the time here. You are the ones who should have to defend and explain yourselves and why you wish to wage war against others. Tell me the reasons you belive war is the best sollution to your problems and I'll do my best to shatter those reasons.

[Alexander the Great]

I don't work for the UN, I did 1 years service for them about 10 years ago. Today I consider the UN to be an organization of the past that has had their time and should make way for something new. This new organization should put preasure on everyone who have or are developing nucler, biological or chemical weapons, not just the countris who are convenient to criticize. Furthermore there should be no such thing as vetos or constant members of important counsils. Instead each coutry should recive a certain number of votes. A global organization of some sort is needed to carry on much of the work done by the UN today. UNICEF, UNIFEM, UNAIDS, UNESCO and WHO are just a few examples of suborganizations doing an excellent job that can't be discarded. On the other hand the UN have lost most of their political credibility and needs to be modernized somehow.

I'm not in any way anti israeli, but I'm neither anti muslim. I've lived a couple of years in Saudi Arabia, I've met many Israelis in the course of my travels and I've visited Israel on 3 occations. I like certain parts and traditions of both cultures and don't want to see either lost. I do however see a need for stabalization and peaace in the region. Both of you need to look past your differences and find a way to work towards a common goal that all sides can agree on.

Anyway, why the hell does it feel like I am defending myself all the time here. You are the ones who should have to defend and explain yourselves and why you wish to wage war against others. Tell me the reasons you belive war is the best sollution to your problems and I'll do my best to shatter those reasons.

Ver arrogant of you.
To " DEFEAND ".
Hah!
The Liberals think they know everything the best!
I've not attacked you, but if you think you're under attack... well that's your problem.
The war is the best against Iran, because they threat to destroy with their nukes every non Islamic country that resist them.
So we better declare war upon them before it's too late.
Can't you see the reality, or you live in Ideaology?

[The sweed]

Are you afraid of the nukes or the iranians?

and it is my fault I'm defending myself, I've never said anything els :)

[Alexander the Great]

Are you afraid of the nukes or the iranians?

and it is my fault I'm defending myself, I've never said anything els :)


I'm afraid of Iran, and if she has nukes, I'm more afraid.
It's not for peacefull intentions as some think.

[The sweed]

What if they have them already? Then it could prove catastrofic to attack them, just like it would to attack North Korea. Isn't this the exact same allegations that Iraq was subject to before the american invasion? And how many WMD were found there?
________________________________________

A pan-Arab newspaper says that the al Qaeda organisation led by Osama bin Laden bought tactical nuclear weapons from Ukraine in 1998 and is storing them in safe places for possible use.

The newspaper said al Qaeda bought the weapons in suitcases in a deal arranged when Ukrainian scientists visited the Afghan city of Kandahar in 1998. The city was then a stronghold of the Taliban movement, which was allied with al Qaeda.

Al Qaeda would use the weapons only inside the United States or if the group faced a "crushing blow" which threatened its existence, such as the use of nuclear or chemical weapons against its fighters, the paper quoted its sources as saying.

After the Soviet Union broke up in 1991, a former Russian National Security Adviser, Alexander Lebed, said that up to 100 portable suitcase-sized bombs were unaccounted for. Moscow has denied such weapons existed.

Lebed said each one was equivalent to 1,000 tons of TNT and could kill as many as 100,000 people.
________________________________________

When Curt Weldon went to Russia and spoke to Col. Lunev, formerly Russia's leading defense adviser, he said 86 of 132 suitcase bombs were unaccounted for.

When Weldon asked for the whereabouts of the missing nukes?

The general replied "I have no idea".
________________________________________

Did you also know that USA have 11 nuclear bombs unaccounted for and that they have 7982 nuclear warheads deployed and another 2700 in reserve.
________________________________________

If USA attacks Iran because they have or are developing nuclear bombs, doesn't that send a message that it would be ok to attack USA, Russia, China. Great Britain, France, Pakistan, India, North Korea or Israel for the very same reason?
Personally I don't trust any country with nukes. If not used they could easily be stolen and thus end up in the hands of anyone.

[The sweed]

Also have a look at this link http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=1722 and tell me what you think of that.

[The sweed]

hehe ... something els you should see http://www.geocities.com/lolitaslace/goering-quote.jpg

[>>Flyboy<<]

Also have a look at this link http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=1722 and tell me what you think of that.

I THINK ITS BS :mad:

Try this: http://www.joes.com/home/ericsson/

http://www.dawn.com/2005/04/16/int3.htm

http://www.thelocal.se/article.php?ID=1090&date=20050311

http://www.jcpa.org/phas/phas-zuroff-f02.htm

http://www.kkrva.se/kkrvaht_4_2002_05.htm

http://www.spectator.se/stambord/?p=115

The problem is folks like you and others from similar countries (Switzerland and Austria) are the first to cast stones and attempt to show the world how terrible US policy is, but in reality if Sweden or Switzerland were a world power it would be no different than if Hitler was on the UN security council. I think you’re all a bunch of Jealous Hypocrites!

No, US policy is no where near perfect and yes, WE have committed some major military, and political wrongs though out the years, but we are a people of conviction, admit of faults, share them with the world and move on. Take a good hard look at yourselves and you will find that behind your veil of worldly self righteousness, you’re jealous and envious of the US, our culture, our world influence and our economic opportunities and side with us when it only suits your needs. I rather deal with Muslim Radicals or North Korean Communists; at least I know where they’re coming from! :mad:

[The sweed]

LOL

Have I ever said anything about me supporting the Swedish politics? I'm not voting for the ruling party in Sweden and I never will. What I can tell you however, is that my grandparents on my mothers side helped hundreds of jews to escape from Germany and Denmark during the war.

Anyway, it's not me wanting to attack another country here ... it's you! What the United States are doing in the world right now is horrible and you're supporting that. Did you know that you guys are kidnapping people, bring them to countries like Afganistan, torture them and all of this because they have the wrong last name or something equally irrelevant.

The topic of this thread is not "war refuges/nazis in Sweden" so instead of trying to make allegations against me try to focus on the issue at hand and explain to me why you want to start WW3 because I can't understand it. Also, I've lived in the US for several years and I wouldn't say I'm jealous of you guys. There are several other countries in the world that I like a lot more even though I loved the skiing, especially in Montana ... the best snow in the world ;)

No, US policy is no where near perfect and yes, WE have committed some major military, and political wrongs though out the years, but we are a people of conviction, admit of faults, share them with the world and move on.:

It's good that you realize that the US have made mistakes in the past and you're not in any way singeled out in this issue, I don't think you'll find a coutry in the world who haven't made mistakes.
What I'm saying is let's do everything in our power to prevent they are repeted. America might admit their faults, but did you learn anything from them? You have to agree the the single biggest mistake the US have made was to use nukes, but have this tought you anything? You are using radioactive weapons today so I don't think you did, don't support these actions.

[Alexander the Great]

What if they have them already? Then it could prove catastrofic to attack them, just like it would to attack North Korea. Isn't this the exact same allegations that Iraq was subject to before the american invasion? And how many WMD were found there?
________________________________________

A pan-Arab newspaper says that the al Qaeda organisation led by Osama bin Laden bought tactical nuclear weapons from Ukraine in 1998 and is storing them in safe places for possible use.

The newspaper said al Qaeda bought the weapons in suitcases in a deal arranged when Ukrainian scientists visited the Afghan city of Kandahar in 1998. The city was then a stronghold of the Taliban movement, which was allied with al Qaeda.

Al Qaeda would use the weapons only inside the United States or if the group faced a "crushing blow" which threatened its existence, such as the use of nuclear or chemical weapons against its fighters, the paper quoted its sources as saying.

After the Soviet Union broke up in 1991, a former Russian National Security Adviser, Alexander Lebed, said that up to 100 portable suitcase-sized bombs were unaccounted for. Moscow has denied such weapons existed.

Lebed said each one was equivalent to 1,000 tons of TNT and could kill as many as 100,000 people.
________________________________________

When Curt Weldon went to Russia and spoke to Col. Lunev, formerly Russia's leading defense adviser, he said 86 of 132 suitcase bombs were unaccounted for.

When Weldon asked for the whereabouts of the missing nukes?

The general replied "I have no idea".
________________________________________

Did you also know that USA have 11 nuclear bombs unaccounted for and that they have 7982 nuclear warheads deployed and another 2700 in reserve.
________________________________________

If USA attacks Iran because they have or are developing nuclear bombs, doesn't that send a message that it would be ok to attack USA, Russia, China. Great Britain, France, Pakistan, India, North Korea or Israel for the very same reason?
Personally I don't trust any country with nukes. If not used they could easily be stolen and thus end up in the hands of anyone.

If you attack their nukes first, it can succeed.

And your link, to compare to the Nazis, is more exchange of insults than debating.

[>>Flyboy<<]

You have to agree the the single biggest mistake the US have made was to use nukes, but have this tought you anything? You are using radioactive weapons today so I don't think you did, don't support these actions.

Actually I think the BEST thing the US ever did was to USE the atomic bombs during WWII. Between the actual attack and by the time all Japanese casualties were counted about 500,000 Japanese were killed. A few months earlier before the same number were killed when over 180 B-29s firebombed downtown Tokyo into a giant ashtray. These types of bombings would have continued without mercy! Without the atomic bombings there would have been over 5 million dead Japanese and another 1 million American and British casualties. After that we've seen the horror of atomic weapons. I understand their potential, I think you do to, but there are some who don't. The Japanese wanted to fight to the death; we stopped them from continuing a useless fight and having more of their people killed. I see a scary similarity when I see terrorists. No I don't want to kill all Muslims but I will support what ever is necessary to prevent the spread of Radical Muslim Terrorism, the formation of Radical Muslim Governments and another 911 because I know these folks HATE me for being an AMERICAN and know matter what I do or say, they would rather see me dead then to co-exist on this earth with what they consider an "infidel." So with that my feel is if nukes are too inhumane, there are nerve gases that kill painlessly! :mad:

[The sweed]

If you attack their nukes first, it can succeed.

And your link, to compare to the Nazis, is more exchange of insults than debating.

How could you be 100% sure where the nukes are? US intelligence haven't proved to be very accurate in the past considering their allegations of iraqi WMD.

I submitted that link because I think it describes the nazi tactics on propaganda and I belive it can be compared to among others US propaganda today. I didn't mean it as an insult but rather to give you something to think about.

[The sweed]

Actually I think the BEST thing the US ever did was to USE the atomic bombs during WWII. Between the actual attack and by the time all Japanese casualties were counted about 500,000 Japanese were killed. A few months earlier before the same number were killed when over 180 B-29s firebombed downtown Tokyo into a giant ashtray. These types of bombings would have continued without mercy! Without the atomic bombings there would have been over 5 million dead Japanese and another 1 million American and British casualties. After that we've seen the horror of atomic weapons. I understand their potential, I think you do to, but there are some who don't. The Japanese wanted to fight to the death; we stopped them from continuing a useless fight and having more of their people killed. I see a scary similarity when I see terrorists. No I don't want to kill all Muslims but I will support what ever is necessary to prevent the spread of Radical Muslim Terrorism, the formation of Radical Muslim Governments and another 911 because I know these folks HATE me for being an AMERICAN and know matter what I do or say, they would rather see me dead then to co-exist on this earth with what they consider an "infidel." So with that my feel is if nukes are too inhumane, there are nerve gases that kill painlessly! :mad:

First of all, the americans knew were well what kind horror was connected to nukes before they used them against Japan. They knew more then you think about radiation sickness, today known as radiation linked leukemia.

Secondly, you used these nukes against completely civilian targets. I would have understood it if they would have been used against military targets, but they were not. Bringing up the bombing of Tokyo can hardly be used as an excuse, but only dislays another american warcrime that you should be ashamed of.

Thirdly, if you think nervegas kills painlessly you are very illinformed and should study the subject a bit more. Another comment on this would be that you attcked Iraq 2 years ago because they used chem weapons in 1987-88. Are you saying that USA should resolve to using the same weapons now?

[>>Flyboy<<]

Secondly, you used these nukes against completely civilian targets. I would have understood it if they would have been used against military targets, but they were not. Bringing up the bombing of Tokyo can hardly be used as an excuse, but only dislays another american warcrime that you should be ashamed of.


WARCRIMES I SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF!!! - NOW YOU REALLY CRACK ME UP! HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OR BATAAN, SAIPAN, TINIAN, OH AND LET'S NOT FORGET PEARL HARBOR! 1/4 OF THOSE KILLED AT PEARL HARBOR WERE CIVILIANS. WAR CRIMES?!? WE DIDN'T START THE BLOODY WAR, BUT WE SURE AS HELL FINISHED IT!

YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT WAR CRIMES - THOSE POOR JAPANESE SOLDIERS KILLED BY AMERICAN TROOPS WERE RAPING AND MURDERING MILLIONS OF CHINESE AND KOREANS WAY BEFORE THE US GOT INTO WWII. BE REST ASSURED THAT IF THE JAPANESE HAD B-29S OR AN ATOMIC BOMB SAN FRANCISCO OR LOS ANGELES WOULD HAVE BEEN DECIMATED!

THE NEXT TIME YOU SKI IN MONTANA AND LOOK OUT OVER THAT BEAUTIFUL HORIZON KEEP IN MIND THAT THE BLOOD OF "AMERCIAN WAR CRIMINALS" AND THOSE WAR CRIMES GOT YOU THERE! :D

PS - Use gas on a large terrorist population? I wouldn't waste the money. I'll have more fun taking them out with those nasty radioactive bombs you talk about!

[>>Flyboy<<]

There are several other countries in the world that I like a lot more ;)

SO GO THERE AND GET AWAY FROM US WAR CRIMINALS! :mad:

[The sweed]

WARCRIMES I SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF!!! - NOW YOU REALLY CRACK ME UP! HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OR BATAAN, SAIPAN, TINIAN, OH AND LET'S NOT FORGET PEARL HARBOR! 1/4 OF THOSE KILLED AT PEARL HARBOR WERE CIVILIANS. WAR CRIMES?!? WE DIDN'T START THE BLOODY WAR, BUT WE SURE AS HELL FINISHED IT!

yeah, let's not forget about pearl harbour. I couldn't have picked a better example myself. If pearl harbour wasn't a military target I don't know what is, your entire fleet was jammed in there. You say 1/4 of the ppl in those bombings were civilians, but in Hiroshima, Nagasaki and Tokyo 999/1000 were civilians so don't even try to compare it.

[>>Flyboy<<]

yeah, let's not forget about pearl harbour. I couldn't have picked a better example myself. If pearl harbour wasn't a military target I don't know what is, your entire fleet was jammed in there. You say 1/4 of the ppl in those bombings were civilians, but in Hiroshima, Nagasaki and Tokyo 999/1000 were civilians so don't even try to compare it.

And so were Nanking, Shanghai, and Rangoon and the Japanese bombed those cities without mercy, payback is a bitch, especially if your a fanatical Japanese military leader who would have your peolple fight to the death rather than surrender. Oh and don't forget - THE JAPANESE ATTACKED PEARL HARBOR WITHOUT A DECLARATION OF WAR, AND WHY? BECAUSE WE WOULDN'T SELL THEM OIL AND STEEL SO THEY COULD CONTINUE THEIR RAPE OF CHINA!!! Maybe the only way to get the point across is to incinerate 2 of your cities. :rolleyes:

My wife's grandfather was a POW - you told your story about what you saw in Bosnia, compared to what we had to put up with fighting the Japanese, thats a day at Disneyland! The Japanese Army of WWII were one of the most brutal Armies in history, and the method used to get them to surrender more than justified the cause. Even after th atomic bombings, many still fought on.

Again I see you have demonstrated your distorted "European Neutral Country" left wing view of WWII. :p

[The sweed]

Again I see you have demonstrated your distorted "European Neutral Country" left wing view of WWII. :p

Left wing view? You have to be kidding me!
You and your views are exrem right wing or even fascism, so go ahead and call me anything you want. What scares me is the reasebelance there is between US politics today and the politics the nazis were practising during WW2. If you don't remember they blamed the jews and comunists for loads of stuff like the Reichstag fire etc. This is how they got most of their population to stand behind them against "the threat of democracy". The rest of the population were kept in control by a very strong intelligence agency and security police who were blinly loyal to the cause, much like you are now. You wouldn't consider any means to be too fierce or any governing to strong in your serch for terroists, would you? Did you know that everything you do on your comp is monitored and recorded by something called Echellon. Any call that you make on a regular phone could be monitored and recorded without anyone but the NSA knowing about it. Did you know that thousends of people have been kidnapped, tortured and even killed in your search for terrorists.

Consider your own twisted view on politics before you even start commenting mine!

[>>Flyboy<<]

Left wing view? You have to be kidding me!
You and your views are exrem right wing or even fascism, so go ahead and call me anything you want. What scares me is the reasebelance there is between US politics today and the politics the nazis were practising during WW2. If you don't remember they blamed the jews and comunists for loads of stuff like the Reichstag fire etc. This is how they got most of their population to stand behind them against "the threat of democracy". The rest of the population were kept in control by a very strong intelligence agency and security police who were blinly loyal to the cause, much like you are now. You wouldn't consider any means to be too fierce or any governing to strong in your serch for terroists, would you? Did you know that everything you do on your comp is monitored and recorded by something called Echellon. Any call that you make on a regular phone could be monitored and recorded without anyone but the NSA knowing about it. Did you know that thousends of people have been kidnapped, tortured and even killed in your search for terrorists.

Consider your own twisted view on politics before you even start commenting mine!

:rolleyes: Right wing or a Facist, or even a Nazi?!? Give me a break! (LOL) By the way, I have Jewish blood in me , so that's a laugh! I see by your response that you resemble a "conspiricy theory paranoid" who thinks the CIA or NSA is watching everything. Do you know right now I'm writing this from a military base?!? Oh if you don't here from me again, I guess the CIA got me!! LOL, LOL, LOL!

You show me here, the the good ole US or A, a place where YOU ski the mountains of Montana where "thousands of people have disappared?!? Twisted politics?!? You show me where there is gestopo types on our US of A streets? Maybe you're being followed during your ski trips! :eek:

I bet you also thought Reagan was going to start WWIII back in the 80s? Insted the Soviet Union collapsed. Imagine that? ;)

[The sweed]

:rolleyes: Right wing or a Facist, or even a Nazi?!? Give me a break! (LOL) By the way, I have Jewish blood in me , so that's a laugh! I see by your response that you resemble a "conspiricy theory paranoid" who thinks the CIA or NSA is watching everything. Do you know right now I'm writing this from a military base?!? Oh if you don't here from me again, I guess the CIA got me!! LOL, LOL, LOL!

You show me here, the the good ole US or A, a place where YOU ski the mountains of Montana where "thousands of people have disappared?!? Twisted politics?!? You show me where there is gestopo types on our US of A streets? Maybe you're being followed during your ski trips! :eek:

I bet you also thought Reagan was going to start WWIII back in the 80s? Insted the Soviet Union collapsed. Imagine that? ;)

I've never called you a nazi ... I said your perspectives are those of a fascist and that's what the nazis were. Have you heard about Echellon? Do you know what it is? It's not like your goverment is trying to hide it and it's a part of the national security program restricting ppls right to freedom and liberty.

I didn't say 1000s of ppl have been taken in the US. I said they've been taken period! And if you don't belive me I suggest you search around the internet for information on a plane called N379P or the name Khaled el-Masri. Furthermore look for Guantanamo bay and Abu Guraib where prisoners have been held for several years and have been subjected to torture and threats without any kind of trial, official hearings or proofs.

[>>Flyboy<<]

I've never called you a nazi ... I said your perspectives are those of a fascist and that's what the nazis were. Have you heard about Echellon? Do you know what it is? It's not like your goverment is trying to hide it and it's a part of the national security program restricting ppls right to freedom and liberty.

I didn't say 1000s of ppl have been taken in the US. I said they've been taken period! And if you don't belive me I suggest you search around the internet for information on a plane called N379P or the name Khaled el-Masri. Furthermore look for Guantanamo bay and Abu Guraib where prisoners have been held for several years and have been subjected to torture and threats without any kind of trial, official hearings or proofs.

Yes I heard of Echelon, so what?!? Its alleged existence been spoken for years. I don't always agree with my government and If I was worried about something like Echelon, I wouldn't be here!

Let’s see N379P - that's an aircraft's US registration - here's what the FAA says it is:

N379P
Reserved N-Number Type Reservation Fee Paid
Mode S Code 51053177
Reserved Date 01/19/2005
Renewal Date None
Purge Date 02/19/2006
Pending Number Change None
Date Change Authorized None
Reserving Party Name YELLOWSTONE AVIATION IN
Street PO BOX 6291
City JACKSON
State WYOMING
Zip Code 83002-6291
County TETON
Country UNITED STATES

Yellowstone Aviation is an aircraft refueling company that reserved that number for future aircraft purchases. Here's their web site: http://www.yellowstoneaviation.com/csaf.shtml

If you want the FAA web site to look it up yourself its http://162.58.35.241/acdatabase/acmain.htm

These numbers are held for a limited period of time, It won't surprise me if it gets assigned to another aircraft at any given time!

Facist eh?!? Do you consider yourself a socialist? You sound like one!

If you want a conspiracy, I suggest Loch Ness, The Grassy
Knoll or Stone Henge. :confused:

[The sweed]

Yes I heard of Echelon, so what?!? Its alleged existence been spoken for years. I don't always agree with my government and If I was worried about something like Echelon, I wouldn't be here!

Let’s see N379P - that's an aircraft's US registration - here's what the FAA says it is:

N379P
Reserved N-Number Type Reservation Fee Paid
Mode S Code 51053177
Reserved Date 01/19/2005
Renewal Date None
Purge Date 02/19/2006
Pending Number Change None
Date Change Authorized None
Reserving Party Name YELLOWSTONE AVIATION IN
Street PO BOX 6291
City JACKSON
State WYOMING
Zip Code 83002-6291
County TETON
Country UNITED STATES

Yellowstone Aviation is an aircraft refueling company that reserved that number for future aircraft purchases. Here's their web site: http://www.yellowstoneaviation.com/csaf.shtml

If you want the FAA web site to look it up yourself its http://162.58.35.241/acdatabase/acmain.htm

These numbers are held for a limited period of time, It won't surprise me if it gets assigned to another aircraft at any given time!

Facist eh?!? Do you consider yourself a socialist? You sound like one!

If you want a conspiracy, I suggest Loch Ness, The Grassy
Knoll or Stone Henge. :confused:

Loch Ness ... a lake in scotland
The grassy knoll??? haven't heard about
Stone Henge ... something ancient, most likely some ritual "temple" use for sacrificing

If I want conspiracy let's instead talk about the moon landing, 9/11 and 1958 World cup in football. ;)

Anyway see what the plane have been used for, not where it's from and what about Khaled el-Masri ... any comments? Or is that conspiracy theories aswell?

Echelon is very real btw, if you don't belive in it it's denial. What can be discussed is what it's beeing used for.

[>>Flyboy<<]

Loch Ness ... a lake in scotland
The grassy knoll??? haven't heard about
Stone Henge ... something ancient, most likely some ritual "temple" use for sacrificing

If I want conspiracy let's instead talk about the moon landing, 9/11 and 1958 World cup in football. ;)

Anyway see what the plane have been used for, not where it's from and what about Khaled el-Masri ... any comments? Or is that conspiracy theories aswell?

Echelon is very real btw, if you don't belive in it it's denial. What can be discussed is what it's beeing used for.

I did look at that allegded plane, IT DON'T EXIST!

[The sweed]

I did look at that allegded plane, IT DON'T EXIST!

http://spaces.icgpartners.com/index2.asp?category=&eventdate=11/14/2004

I guess they changed the code to N8068V ... check out what it has been used for! Apperently you don't know how to search for info on the net so click the link below, enter n379p in the box and click the seach button. Then look at the top ten hits and see what it is and still ... Khaled el-Masri ... comments.

www.google.com

[The sweed]

The plane’s original registration number, N581GA, would later be changed by the FAA to N379P and again to N8068V.

[>>Flyboy<<]

http://spaces.icgpartners.com/index2.asp?category=&eventdate=11/14/2004

I guess they changed the code to N8068V ... check out what it has been used for! Apperently you don't know how to search for info on the net so click the link below, enter n379p in the box and click the seach button. Then look at the top ten hits and see what it is and still ... Khaled el-Masri ... comments.

www.google.com

Guess again - the number is was regestered to a helicopter. This is straight from the FAA website. Sikorsky helicopters now has rights to that number. This site is BS - they know nothing about aircraft. I read that link though, I think I read the same thing in a supermarket Enquirer Tabloid :cool:

N8068V has multiple records

Reserved N-Number Type Reservation Manufacturer
Mode S Code 52575653
Reserved Date 03/04/2005
Renewal Date None
Purge Date 99/99/9999
Pending Number Change None
Date Change Authorized None
Reserving Party Name SIKORSKY AIRCRAFT CORP
Street 6900 MAIN ST
City STRATFORD
State CONNECTICUT
Zip Code 06614-1378
County FAIRFIELD
Country UNITED STATES


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Deregistered Aircraft 1 of 1

Aircraft Description
Serial Number 2401 Type Registration Corporation
Manufacturer Name ROBINSON HELICOPTER Certificate Issue Date None
Model R22 BETA Mode S Code 52575653
Year Manufacturer None Cancel Date None
Reason for Cancellation Exported Exported To SOUTH AFRICA


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Aircraft Registration prior to Deregistration

Name ROBINSON HELICOPTER COMPANY
Street 24747 CRENSHAW BOULEVARD
City TORRANCE State CALIFORNIA Zip Code 90505
County None
Country Unknown

[The sweed]

ok, several questions at the time can't be answered I guess so start with this:

search for Khaled el-Masri on google ... comments?

[>>Flyboy<<]

ok, several questions at the time can't be answered I guess so start with this:

search for Khaled el-Masri on google ... comments?

Read the story, Aljazeerah came up as the news source. I think it makes good bathroom wall literature :confused:

[The sweed]

lol

ok, read these in that order and then give me a new comment on N379P:
http://www.tv4.se/visa/?fGUID=97E6C1CD-F18C-4DC4-B961-7011B83ECFB7
http://www.tv4.se/visa/?fGUID=F7C9C527-F6B7-4A48-A9F2-15437D8E9A93
http://www.tv4.se/visa/?fGUID=3AFD4810-95BE-415D-B0E3-746D6F82292A
http://www.tv4.se/visa/?fGUID=3136A767-D8D5-4563-8175-4464BD6C6BBE

Downloads of the actual broadcast can be found on this link next to webb-tv:
http://www.tv4.se/visa/?ID=339558
You need to register to be able to download it and it's all in swedish so you wouldn't understand a whole lot, the taxtfiles up top are in english tho.

I know similar program series have been broadcasted in England and Denmark, but I don't know how to get a hold of these. My sister who lives in england told me about that one and I get danish tv at home so that's how I know about that one.

In denmark who btw are one of the first countries who sent troops to Iraq it was broadcasted by a goverment controlled station, either DR1 or TV2. I have no idea who broadcasted it in England.

[>>Flyboy<<]

lol

ok, read these in that order and then give me a new comment on N379P:
http://www.tv4.se/visa/?fGUID=97E6C1CD-F18C-4DC4-B961-7011B83ECFB7
http://www.tv4.se/visa/?fGUID=F7C9C527-F6B7-4A48-A9F2-15437D8E9A93
http://www.tv4.se/visa/?fGUID=3AFD4810-95BE-415D-B0E3-746D6F82292A
http://www.tv4.se/visa/?fGUID=3136A767-D8D5-4563-8175-4464BD6C6BBE

Downloads of the actual broadcast can be found on this link next to webb-tv:
http://www.tv4.se/visa/?ID=339558
You need to register to be able to download it and it's all in swedish so you wouldn't understand a whole lot, the taxtfiles up top are in english tho.

I know similar program series have been broadcasted in England and Denmark, but I don't know how to get a hold of these. My sister who lives in england told me about that one and I get danish tv at home so that's how I know about that one.

In denmark who btw are one of the first countries who sent troops to Iraq it was broadcasted by a goverment controlled station, either DR1 or TV2. I have no idea who broadcasted it in England.

I still don't think this proves much - show me a crewmember that witnessed this and I'll start believing it.

Back in the 1980s I worked for Lockheed. I used to fly to an undisclosed location. The News media had the tail numer of the aircraft tracked and put a story out that we were woking on a crashed UFO :eek: :rolleyes:

[The sweed]

I still don't think this proves much - show me a crewmember that witnessed this and I'll start believing it.

Back in the 1980s I worked for Lockheed. I used to fly to an undisclosed location. The News media had the tail numer of the aircraft tracked and put a story out that we were woking on a crashed UFO :eek: :rolleyes:

well, the head of CIA, George Tenet, is included in the first part and partly admits that it's true. There are people from Swedish security police, goverment (even the prime minister himself) and official people from other coutries (including USA) that admit to the allegations. The last link is a classified embassy report that confirms all of it. I figured that it had been translated aswell, but I was wrong and it's all in swedish, sorry about that.

This whole thing have created a big scandal for the swedish goverment who've admittedly been lying to the UN while trying to cover it up. Today they are admitting that it's true and expressed their regrets about the situation :mad: The only thing they really regret is getting caught I bet.

If it wasn't true I'm sure USA would be very angry and most likely impose political preassure on Sweden to withdraw the allegations, don't you think? The most propable action would be to end all diplomatic relations with us and bring your embassadours home until it's all sorted out. The silence and dissociation from such actions can only be interpreted as a confirmation that it's all true, sorry.

[The sweed]

http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2004/10/ahmed_agiza_muh.html
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGEUR420012004?open&of=ENG-EGY
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/05/05/egypt8530.htm
http://www.statewatch.org/analyses/no-31-sweden-torture.pdf
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/05/27/sweden8621.htm

part of the top link is an article written in the washington post ... and if you still don't belive it's true I sugest you browse through the internet for the names "Ahmed Agiza" and "Mohammad Alzery".

[>>Flyboy<<]

http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2004/10/ahmed_agiza_muh.html
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGEUR420012004?open&of=ENG-EGY
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/05/05/egypt8530.htm
http://www.statewatch.org/analyses/no-31-sweden-torture.pdf
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/05/27/sweden8621.htm

part of the top link is an article written in the washington post ... and if you still don't belive it's true I sugest you browse through the internet for the names "Ahmed Agiza" and "Mohammad Alzery".

And if this is true, what's you're point?

[The sweed]

That american govt agencies are supporting tortue and what can only be discribed as kidnapping.

[>>Flyboy<<]

That american govt agencies are supporting tortue and what can only be discribed as kidnapping.

You haven't shown any creditable proof that the CIA is involved in this. The US government just convicted severl solders for mistreating Iraqi prisoners. If this was credable, the media would be all over this ad want the same actions brought against those responsible.

[Alexander the Great]

That american govt agencies are supporting tortue and what can only be discribed as kidnapping.


And the Islamic don't..... :eek:

[Brian]

An article in today's Washington Post details the CIA involvement with irrefutable evidence:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/20/AR2005052001605.html

It's no secret that the executive branch of the U.S. government behaves as though it has the right to do whatever it wants to whenever it wants to and wherever it wants to without any Constitutional or international restraints or judicial review, and often in disregard of basic human rights.

[The sweed]

And the Islamic don't..... :eek:

That's beside the point. I thought america and it's allies were supposed to be the good guys, obviously you are no better then the people you are accusing and fighting.

[Alexander the Great]

That's beside the point. I thought america and it's allies were supposed to be the good guys, obviously you are no better then the people you are accusing and fighting.


Why, because I support fighting the danger to the world? :confused:

[The sweed]

Why, because I support fighting the danger to the world? :confused:

Have you ever given thought to the fact that your country might be considered dangerous by a lot of people? You have nuclear weapons and I know you wouldn't hesitate to use them in a case of emergency. In fact, during the sixday war there were 3 planes in the air at all times carrying nuclear bombs just incase the war didn't go the way you had planned it.

If you and your allies weren't so agressive maybe they wouldn't be either. Have you ever considered that?

[Alexander the Great]

Have you ever given thought to the fact that your country might be considered dangerous by a lot of people? You have nuclear weapons and I know you wouldn't hesitate to use them in a case of emergency. In fact, during the sixday war there were 3 planes in the air at all times carrying nuclear bombs just incase the war didn't go the way you had planned it.

If you and your allies weren't so agressive maybe they wouldn't be either. Have you ever considered that?


Have you considered that without being aggresive we wouldn't have exist?
Oh sorry, but many people as you think we don't have right of existence...

[The sweed]

Have you considered that without being aggresive we wouldn't have exist?
Oh sorry, but many people as you think we don't have right of existence...

That's a load of crap. If you treat a dog badly, beat it and feed it poorly, this dog will become agressive when it grows up. Treat it nicely and the dog will be good, humans work very much the same.

Have you ever heard about the golden rule? I think it's from the new testement and goes:
So whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them; for this is the law and the prophets.

I think this is one of a few good qutes from the bible and something you need to think about because it also wors the opposite way:
Other people treat you the same way you treat them.

Basically I think you need to understand that muslims are also humans and in general humans don't want war. There are offcourse exceptions, like yourself, but these exceptions are the reason humans have built prisons. That is where anyone who wants to kill or in other ways harm another human beeing truly belongs.

I think everyone have the right to exist and to their own belifs, but I also belive that when ones belifs become dangerous to others they belong in a safe place away from others such as a prison or in most cases an asylum.

[Alexander the Great]

That's a load of crap. If you treat a dog badly, beat it and feed it poorly, this dog will become agressive when it grows up. Treat it nicely and the dog will be good, humans work very much the same.

Have you ever heard about the golden rule? I think it's from the new testement and goes:


I think this is one of a few good qutes from the bible and something you need to think about because it also wors the opposite way:
Other people treat you the same way you treat them.

Basically I think you need to understand that muslims are also humans and in general humans don't want war. There are offcourse exceptions, like yourself, but these exceptions are the reason humans have built prisons. That is where anyone who wants to kill or in other ways harm another human beeing truly belongs.

I think everyone have the right to exist and to their own belifs, but I also belive that when ones belifs become dangerous to others they belong in a safe place away from others such as a prison or in most cases an asylum.


Well, tell that to the Arabs and to the Palestinians, because they think we have no right of existence.
And, if we wouldn't have exist if we wouldn't have been answering the Arabs in our independence war, and that's was kind of aggression, that was needed.

[The sweed]

Well, tell that to the Arabs and to the Palestinians, because they think we have no right of existence.
And, if we wouldn't have exist if we wouldn't have been answering the Arabs in our independence war, and that's was kind of aggression, that was needed.

To war them again is not gonna help to convince them of the opposite rather the opposite. I see 3 ways to resolve this situation to kiss and make up, move Israel or to start a war whereiether you or them are the sole survivors. To move Israel would be far too expensive and to kill eachother off shouldn't even be an option so I suggest you try and get along with them, don't you agree?
I know you will say, but they are attacking us we must defend ourselves. Your "defence" will in turn lead to agrevation on their behalf and they will resolve to violance to "defend" themselves leading to further "defence" from your side and so on. Someone has to break these chain of events, swallow their pride and suffer a few unanswered attacks. If you truly started working side by side with the palestinian goverment and truly devoted yourselves to the peaceprocces I know your problems could be resolved, not in a few weeks and maybe not even in a couple of years, but in the long perspective you would gain peace.
Right now you're in a situation where the paletinian goverment is forced to support suicide bombers and others alike because it's their only defence against your actions. This could change if you give them some real power and support instead of just bully them like you do now. Maybe you could use your intelligence, Mossad, to help them finding antagonists and dealing with them according to their laws. If they were to be arrested, tried and convicted under palestinian law without israeli involvement I'm sure palestinians would change their attitude over time. The avarage palestinian don't want war any more then the general israeli does, noone wants war, it's the result of poor negotiations and lack of patience.

In every country you will find extreemists, but in some countries they make up a greater part of the poulation then in others. The middle-east have been a growingground for extreemism for half a century now and the situation isn't improving. I'n Sweden we also have problems with extreemist groups, nazis, facsists, animal right activists, anti capitalists, enveiromental activists, ultra feminists and many others. You name it we've got it, but that doesn't mean we give them attention in media and goverment debates like many countries in the middle-east does. In Israel you have organisations such as the Kahane Movement, the only one I know by name, and other right-wing religious extremist groups. They recive way too much attention in media and political debates much like Hamas and other groups in Palestine. This is a problem you need to requgnize and adress much harsher then you are today.

The independence war has been over for a long time, it's time to realize this and not bring up history to undermine negotiations for a peacefull future, nothing good can come from it. Try to have a possitive view on the future and realize that the palestinians are your neighbors who you have to work with and accept in order to make this future work. The fault is not yours alone, but runs far deeper then that. USA, Sweden (Olof Palme in particular), Syria, Lebanon, France, South Africa, Russia, China, almost every country in the world have helped to deepen this conflict over the past 50-60 years, but you and I mean you personally as a young teenager in Israel have the power and opportunity to change this conflicts nature into something better. The whole region where you live is depending on this. What you could do to help is to get a couple of palestinian friends, someone in their culture who you can connect with and help you gain a greater understanding for the future. These are the people who will be your neighbors in the future, weather you like it or not, it's the way it has to be.

In the future we'll see an even smaller world then we do today. People will travel all over the world in a fasion we can't even imagine today. You might live in Israel, work in London, have buisness meetings in Tokyo, Los Angels and Sao Paulo, dinner in Shanghai and watch an opera in Sydney all in a single day. Think about the world 100 years ago, compare it to the world today, realize that development is exponential and try to imagine the world in 250 years from now and you might be close to what the world will look like in only 50 years. The world will not be a question about different people, cultures or religions at this time since all people will have mixed into a blend that can't be divided into such catagories. We will have to accept values and thoughts of russians, americans, europeeans and any other you can imagine just like we accept the fact that extremist groups will never disapear and they will continue to create havoc for some people the way even recognized groups such as greenpeace and others do today.

Work for a better future with more tolerance and less predjudice then we have today. You are part of the hope for a better future and given your situation you have more power then most people to affect it. Take responsibility for this and try to make it a better place with less agression and violance instead of the opposite. You will in hand turn this world over to your children at some point and wouldn't it be fantastic if they or maybe your grandchildren could grow up without the fear that you have experienced?

[Alexander the Great]

To war them again is not gonna help to convince them of the opposite rather the opposite. I see 3 ways to resolve this situation to kiss and make up, move Israel or to start a war whereiether you or them are the sole survivors. To move Israel would be far too expensive and to kill eachother off shouldn't even be an option so I suggest you try and get along with them, don't you agree?
I know you will say, but they are attacking us we must defend ourselves. Your "defence" will in turn lead to agrevation on their behalf and they will resolve to violance to "defend" themselves leading to further "defence" from your side and so on. Someone has to break these chain of events, swallow their pride and suffer a few unanswered attacks. If you truly started working side by side with the palestinian goverment and truly devoted yourselves to the peaceprocces I know your problems could be resolved, not in a few weeks and maybe not even in a couple of years, but in the long perspective you would gain peace.
Right now you're in a situation where the paletinian goverment is forced to support suicide bombers and others alike because it's their only defence against your actions. This could change if you give them some real power and support instead of just bully them like you do now. Maybe you could use your intelligence, Mossad, to help them finding antagonists and dealing with them according to their laws. If they were to be arrested, tried and convicted under palestinian law without israeli involvement I'm sure palestinians would change their attitude over time. The avarage palestinian don't want war any more then the general israeli does, noone wants war, it's the result of poor negotiations and lack of patience.

In every country you will find extreemists, but in some countries they make up a greater part of the poulation then in others. The middle-east have been a growingground for extreemism for half a century now and the situation isn't improving. I'n Sweden we also have problems with extreemist groups, nazis, facsists, animal right activists, anti capitalists, enveiromental activists, ultra feminists and many others. You name it we've got it, but that doesn't mean we give them attention in media and goverment debates like many countries in the middle-east does. In Israel you have organisations such as the Kahane Movement, the only one I know by name, and other right-wing religious extremist groups. They recive way too much attention in media and political debates much like Hamas and other groups in Palestine. This is a problem you need to requgnize and adress much harsher then you are today.

The independence war has been over for a long time, it's time to realize this and not bring up history to undermine negotiations for a peacefull future, nothing good can come from it. Try to have a possitive view on the future and realize that the palestinians are your neighbors who you have to work with and accept in order to make this future work. The fault is not yours alone, but runs far deeper then that. USA, Sweden (Olof Palme in particular), Syria, Lebanon, France, South Africa, Russia, China, almost every country in the world have helped to deepen this conflict over the past 50-60 years, but you and I mean you personally as a young teenager in Israel have the power and opportunity to change this conflicts nature into something better. The whole region where you live is depending on this. What you could do to help is to get a couple of palestinian friends, someone in their culture who you can connect with and help you gain a greater understanding for the future. These are the people who will be your neighbors in the future, weather you like it or not, it's the way it has to be.

In the future we'll see an even smaller world then we do today. People will travel all over the world in a fasion we can't even imagine today. You might live in Israel, work in London, have buisness meetings in Tokyo, Los Angels and Sao Paulo, dinner in Shanghai and watch an opera in Sydney all in a single day. Think about the world 100 years ago, compare it to the world today, realize that development is exponential and try to imagine the world in 250 years from now and you might be close to what the world will look like in only 50 years. The world will not be a question about different people, cultures or religions at this time since all people will have mixed into a blend that can't be divided into such catagories. We will have to accept values and thoughts of russians, americans, europeeans and any other you can imagine just like we accept the fact that extremist groups will never disapear and they will continue to create havoc for some people the way even recognized groups such as greenpeace and others do today.

Work for a better future with more tolerance and less predjudice then we have today. You are part of the hope for a better future and given your situation you have more power then most people to affect it. Take responsibility for this and try to make it a better place with less agression and violance instead of the opposite. You will in hand turn this world over to your children at some point and wouldn't it be fantastic if they or maybe your grandchildren could grow up without the fear that you have experienced?


The Kahane are wacko a LOT, but there are also extreme left as Shalom Ajshav, who are quite extremist in their own way.

[The sweed]

Don't you agree with what I said tho?

[Alexander the Great]

Don't you agree with what I said tho?


I agree with some of it, about the Kahana group, and on the rest, yes, I want peace, but I know it won't go easily as you think.

[The sweed]

I agree with some of it, about the Kahana group, and on the rest, yes, I want peace, but I know it won't go easily as you think.

I've never said it would be easy, have you been paying attention at all?

I'm saying it will take 20-40 years of hard work at the very best, but I'm also saying it has to be done if there's ever gonna be peace.

Do you think a war would help? Do you think a war would change the mind of millions of muslims or jews around the world? NO! War will only create more fear for eachother ... and fear leads to suffering, suffering leads to anger, anger leads to hatred and hatred is the path to the dark side :) Seriously now, war will not solve your situation, but make it even worse. War doesn't bring people closer, but drives them further apart. You have to learn to live side by side regardless of what you think, the only other option is genocide and I hope you don't see that as an option.

[Alexander the Great]

I've never said it would be easy, have you been paying attention at all?

I'm saying it will take 20-40 years of hard work at the very best, but I'm also saying it has to be done if there's ever gonna be peace.

Do you think a war would help? Do you think a war would change the mind of millions of muslims or jews around the world? NO! War will only create more fear for eachother ... and fear leads to suffering, suffering leads to anger, anger leads to hatred and hatred is the path to the dark side :) Seriously now, war will not solve your situation, but make it even worse. War doesn't bring people closer, but drives them further apart. You have to learn to live side by side regardless of what you think, the only other option is genocide and I hope you don't see that as an option.

Excuse me, I got ADD and sometimes I don't notice everything.

War, can help, depends when and where, and why.
I think the invasion there during this Intifada was justified because they started killing our civillians while we weren't rulling there, so we defend our civillians.

[The sweed]

Excuse me, I got ADD and sometimes I don't notice everything.

War, can help, depends when and where, and why.
I think the invasion there during this Intifada was justified because they started killing our civillians while we weren't rulling there, so we defend our civillians.

But these are actions of a few people, you can't punish an entire population for this. The intifada was only started after you had retalliated, if you had refrained from retalliation and instead offered the palestinian govt help to find the perpetraitors the situation would have been very different today.

You must stop seeing the palestinians as the enemy and look at them as individuals, some terrorists, but most of them regular people. After Sharon was murdered you didn't judge all israelis because of the actions of the guy who did that, did you? Neither should you judge all palestinians because of the actions some in their population are performing.

[Alexander the Great]

But these are actions of a few people, you can't punish an entire population for this. The intifada was only started after you had retalliated, if you had refrained from retalliation and instead offered the palestinian govt help to find the perpetraitors the situation would have been very different today.

You must stop seeing the palestinians as the enemy and look at them as individuals, some terrorists, but most of them regular people. After Sharon was murdered you didn't judge all israelis because of the actions of the guy who did that, did you? Neither should you judge all palestinians because of the actions some in their population are performing.


But their government don't want to help us.
And, I know that we're not 100% right, but I think we're more right than them....

[The sweed]

it's not a question of them helping you. It's a question of you helping them while not bombing them.

[Alexander the Great]

it's not a question of them helping you. It's a question of you helping them while not bombing them.


First they should help theselves.

[The sweed]

You have one of the best intelligence agancies in the world, why can't you help them? They have to rely on very poor intelligene to find these terrorists. You have all the answers, but you can't tell since it's classified information.

[Alexander the Great]

You have one of the best intelligence agancies in the world, why can't you help them? They have to rely on very poor intelligene to find these terrorists. You have all the answers, but you can't tell since it's classified information.


We help them, they don't do anything with the help, just cry.

[trusso]

You have one of the best intelligence agancies in the world, why can't you help them? They have to rely on very poor intelligene to find these terrorists. You have all the answers, but you can't tell since it's classified information.

The USA helps too much already. We are helping IRAQ right now. And are we appreciated for it? No. We are looked at like we are invading them. How about the tons of food and clothing we send there. It all wound up in Sadaam's castles. We need to stop helping these sick countries because they do not want help. They use our resources and then the leaders horde them and the people who need them never see it.

[trusso]

War, can help, depends when and where, and why.
I think the invasion there during this Intifada was justified because they started killing our civillians while we weren't rulling there, so we defend our civillians.[/QUOTE]

It sure helped in WWII. We blew the pants off the frigging Japs and they havent bothered us since. So, yes, in some cases, war helps.

[trusso]

[QUOTE=The sweed]That's a load of crap. If you treat a dog badly, beat it and feed it poorly, this dog will become agressive when it grows up. Treat it nicely and the dog will be good, humans work very much the same.

Well, the US got treated pretty badly so we have to be aggressive. Sadaam laughed in the UN's face for 18 or 19 resolutions. So, we did what we had to do. Even with no WMD, we had plenty of cause to go in and get him.
---------------------------------------------------------------------


[QUOTE=The sweed] Basically I think you need to understand that muslims are also humans and in general humans don't want war.

Sure. that is why they go on tv and behead people live while the world watches. How many of those beheadings did we have to go through last year. These arent people. These are barbaric animals. If the USA did that, our government would have these maske losers thrown in jail or put to death. This does not compare with one or two US soldiers throwing a Muslim bible on the floor or humiliating them and making them strip naked and take pictures. That's just practical joke stuff. And you better believe that the US had a trial for such behavior and those soldiers are paying the price. I'm sure the hooded pussies from IRAQ and all of those countries are running free.

They are asking for a war. What they do not realize is that the USA will not back down., NEVER. If you want to provoke us with a 911 or a beheading, we will get you. Ask Sadaam, the little mouse that hid in a hole in the ground!

HA HA HA!!!

[Alexander the Great]

War, can help, depends when and where, and why.
I think the invasion there during this Intifada was justified because they started killing our civillians while we weren't rulling there, so we defend our civillians.

It sure helped in WWII. We blew the pants off the frigging Japs and they havent bothered us since. So, yes, in some cases, war helps.[/QUOTE]


Well, yes, in this case, war is needed. :(