Head in the Sand Award

[PopePepe]

http://news.aol.com/article/pope-condoms-aids/384211

YAOUNDE, Cameroon (March 17) - Pope Benedict XVI said condoms are not the answer to the AIDS epidemic in Africa and can make the problem worse, setting off criticism Tuesday as he began a weeklong trip to the continent where some 22 million people are living with HIV.
Benedict's first statement on an issue that has divided even Catholic clergy working with AIDS patients came hours before he arrived in Cameroon's capital — greeted by thousands of flag-waving faithful who stood shoulder-to-shoulder in red dirt fields and jammed downtown streets for a glimpse of the pontiff's motorcade.


They're NOT the answer...they're a small part of the solution of a huge problem. By giving people the ability to arm themselves with condoms, with other safe sex techniques (and yes abstinence is one of them), options and education...then you're answering the problem.

[DJ Prophetic]

Remember kids, be a winner like DJ. If you stick your dick in a bunch of women, stay clean and wrap your dick up tight.

Not one STD yet! Stay clean kids!

[madmax]

I have no interest in getting into a religious or political discussion on this board, that's not why I come here (in fact, there are forums here for that but I deliberately stay off of them), but the "Doesn't Have a Clue of the Perspective or Point of View that Someone Else is Coming From" Award goes to: http://forums.backpage.com/member.php?u=83069.

Wow, great observation... based on what?

[Gary1963]

Wow, great observation... based on what?

Don't you hate slanderers?

[SIMMCO]

I have no interest in getting into a religious or political discussion on this board, that's not why I come here (in fact, there are forums here for that but I deliberately stay off of them), but the "Doesn't Have a Clue of the Perspective or Point of View that Someone Else is Coming From" Award goes to: http://forums.backpage.com/member.php?u=83069.

looks like someone is NOT getting a Christmas card this year !!

[madmax]

Don't you hate slanderers?

Hate baseless shit in any guise. Besides, it is a valid question for this forum (and politics) as it relates to STDs.

[madmax]

Would abstinence stop the spread of AIDS?

Yeah, the same way it kept Bristol Palin from getting pregnant.:rolleyes:

[Laligal]

Would abstinence stop the spread of AIDS?
NO
But Condoms would help some and treating the infected women so the kids have a chance at being born hiv -
Then teaching safer sex practice's would all help to slow it down.
You can not have infected people breeding like rabbits with no treatment or precautions.

[INdymale4oral]

The right wing, and the left wing are both wrong on this topic. As usual the truth lies somewhere inthe middle.

Abstenence is one method of curtailing pregnancy, and STD's
Condoms are another.
But more importantly is teaching people what the risks are, and the varioius methods to protect yourself. Parents need to take an active role, and not just hope for the best. Not all parents do this, so therefore schools must fill the gap. The right needs to realize this and allow them to teach. The left needs to realize that this is not cart blanc do do whatever they want with sex education, and they will not be allowed to pass out condoms on the school property.

Both sides argue against the other wanting only what thier side wants, and then nothing gets done at all.

[Laligal]

Third world countries where it is ramped has no education in HIV and aids.
There they get it the pass it on and then they die.

[INdymale4oral]

Third world countries where it is ramped has no education in HIV and aids.
There they get it the pass it on and then they die.

one of the biggest problems with 3rd world countries is that you tend to have a dictator that wants his populance to be ignorant, and by not educating them on any number of topics helps keep the peace there. They do not care that they have rampant HIV, or other STD's killing the people, they figure sex will take thier minds off the fact that they have no food, jobs, or schools in the 1st place.

[Laligal]

one of the biggest problems with 3rd world countries is that you tend to have a dictator that wants his populance to be ignorant, and by not educating them on any number of topics helps keep the peace there. They do not care that they have rampant HIV, or other STD's killing the people, they figure sex will take thier minds off the fact that they have no food, jobs, or schools in the 1st place.The O/P is talking about Africa...
and that is where the biggest problem is.
Here we know about it and many choose to have unprotected sex.

[madmax]

That's simply false. I can see you only want to apply your viewpoint here and not actually honestly discuss the issue. Either that or you don't know what abstinence means, but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.

WTF???? "I can see you only want to apply your viewpoint here and not actually honestly discuss the issue"
You are the one that slammed someone for an opinion then said you didn't want to discuss. Make up you mind.:rolleyes:
What is simple false? Quit being condescending. Of course I know what abstinence means. Those that rely on abstinence education only are fooling themselves, and they keep being proved as ineffective.

[madmax]

The right wing, and the left wing are both wrong on this topic. As usual the truth lies somewhere inthe middle.

Abstenence is one method of curtailing pregnancy, and STD's
Condoms are another.
But more importantly is teaching people what the risks are, and the varioius methods to protect yourself. Parents need to take an active role, and not just hope for the best. Not all parents do this, so therefore schools must fill the gap. The right needs to realize this and allow them to teach. The left needs to realize that this is not cart blanc do do whatever they want with sex education, and they will not be allowed to pass out condoms on the school property.

Both sides argue against the other wanting only what thier side wants, and then nothing gets done at all.

I think a few people here have already said that one viewpoint does not hold all the answers... even Pope's first post said as much.

[INdymale4oral]

The O/P is talking about Africa...
and that is where the biggest problem is.
Here we know about it and many choose to have unprotected sex.

But if you ask many kids, 15-18, they dont always realize the risks they are taking. Either their parents dont tell talk to them, or their parents dont know because they have chosen to ignore the problem in hopes that someone else will fix it.

[Laligal]

But if you ask many kids, 15-18, they dont always realize the risks they are taking. Either their parents dont tell talk to them, or their parents dont know because they have chosen to ignore the problem in hopes that someone else will fix it.Well it could also be that parents in that age group were not as educated on the subject. I am 40 and it was just starting to be talked about in school when I was there and they didn't know what they do now.
I learned a lot because my MOM had a foster kid that was HIV+ and got it from her Father raping her for a few years, she was 11.
My oldest 2 24 and 20 learned a lot about it in school and several of their friends have the attitude that well it wont happen to me.

[INdymale4oral]

I am a 47 year old man, I never recieved anything in school about sex education. I still remember going across the street to get a religion class during the day.

I however made sure that my son and I have been having age appropriate discussions since he was in 5th grade and got a phone call offering him a blow job.

[SIMMCO]

I am a 47 year old man, I never recieved anything in school about sex education. I still remember going across the street to get a religion class during the day.

I however made sure that my son and I have been having age appropriate discussions since he was in 5th grade and got a phone call offering him a blow job.

michael jackson called you !!

[Laligal]

I am a 47 year old man, I never recieved anything in school about sex education. I still remember going across the street to get a religion class during the day.

I however made sure that my son and I have been having age appropriate discussions since he was in 5th grade and got a phone call offering him a blow job.I am open with my kids about sex. I had my daughter at 15 and have had a good relationship with her. She is a nurse and cant believe how ignorant people are about HIV/Aids and STDS.
But Abstinence is not the answer. People will say sure I will wait but in reality how may do? And the ones that do, after marriage how many have affairs and feel they never got the chance to experience sex with others.
This is a pandora's box and there are many opinions but education and awareness are part of the answer.

[INdymale4oral]

I am open with my kids about sex. I had my daughter at 15 and have had a good relationship with her. She is a nurse and cant believe how ignorant people are about HIV/Aids and STDS.
But Abstinence is not the answer. People will say sure I will wait but in reality how may do? And the ones that do, after marriage how many have affairs and feel they never got the chance to experience sex with others.
This is a pandora's box and there are many opinions but education and awareness are part of the answer.

No one thing is the answer, as usual the answer is a combination of many things.

[PopePepe]

My main point was that you have a world leader getting on a national platform and decrying and invalidating a proven method of HIV/AIDS prevention. Abstinence is a great idea, as are condoms, mutual masturbation, spermicides and any other way that can be thought of. Africa has had a terrible history with HIV/AIDS. Much of the education that was handed out was invalidated by dictaors, by missionaries and by local beliefs. For instance, a commonly held belief is that you can rid yourself of HIV/AIDS by having sex with a virgin. This leads to a huge amount of rape cases that involve missionaries and children. If the education was there, the tools and the proper training, this might not be the case. Part of the problem too, is that the people of Africa have gotten such conflicting education and "re-education" that they're not sure what's right or wrong anymore.
Accessability to education and the tools needed to impliment the educations are vital in a fight that has taken so much from so many. Who ever it may be, saying that condoms don't work is harmful to preventing and one day eradicating this virus.

Because the issue is so delicate, people are wary of talking about it. It's something that needs to be discussed out of context of pure sex and a mandated sex education course. One venue is not the answer. Like attacking anything, it needs to be a multi-pronged approach.
When I was dealing with HIV/AIDS prevention and treatment, we didn't just throw out condoms and say, "go to it!" We looked at all the factors-drugs, social standing, customs, sexuality, traditions, location, and worked out around that. We weren't going aorund throwing condoms at school kids or forcing people into premarital sex. We used abstinence as a great way to help revent HIV/AIDS, in addition to other means, condoms, knowing your partner and so on...

[BamBam61]

my sex education came from my 20 yr old baby sitter.....thanks Linda.

[Laligal]

http://news.aol.com/article/pope-condoms-aids/384211



They're NOT the answer...they're a small part of the solution of a huge problem. By giving people the ability to arm themselves with condoms, with other safe sex techniques (and yes abstinence is one of them), options and education...then you're answering the problem.

I would discuss it. But those who slam the pope's words without taking into account the motivation behind those words, and those who want to slam the pope's for not having a secular perspective has already demonstrated that they either can't or won't accept his message.

And unless people are also slamming the First Lady of Kenya for having the same point of view (http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2006/may/06052307.html), then this entire thread would appear to be simply an excuse to slam the pope for not thinking the way the OP wants him too.

Because of course, if the people of Africa, and the leaders of Africa, think that condoms with stop the spread of AIDs, then I don't see why the pope's thoughts on the matter should be relevant at all. Do they ask the pope's opinions on other governmental matters? Do people slam him because he subscribes to a Keynesian model of economics?

I didn't take this as the O/P slamming the pope..

[always]

I didn't take this as the O/P slamming the pope..

I guess "Head in the Sand award" was meant as support of his comments? Expecting the pope to endorse condoms and then bitching when he doesn't is a clear indicator of one's willingness to engage in true discourse.

But I don't come here for this, so I've retracted. The bitchfest (however misguided) can continue.

[kreative_2001]

I didn't take this as the O/P slamming the pope..

What? Who's banging the pope?

[always]

What? Who's banging the pope?

Some alterboy. You gotta be careful around them.

[kreative_2001]

Some alterboy. You gotta be careful around them.

Those kids seem to keep giving the Catholics a bad name!

[always]

Those kids seem to keep giving the Catholics a bad name!

And who are you gonna believe? Some sweet little kid or some old dude who claims not to be interested in sex?

[Laligal]

I guess "Head in the Sand award" was meant as support of his comments? Expecting the pope to endorse condoms and then bitching when he doesn't is a clear indicator of one's willingness to engage in true discourse.

But I don't come here for this, so I've retracted. The bitchfest (however misguided) can continue.Well I actually think it is a good topic.
Maybe the title should be different.:confused:
I never took the title as anything but words..

Not directed at the quote:
Sex is a lot of fun to discuss but the consequences should be talked about also. Different views are not bad just different.

[kreative_2001]

And who are you gonna believe? Some sweet little kid or some old dude who claims not to be interested in sex?

Well, aren't we taught to always believe the adult. Besides, kids these days are just out for attention. Damn little bitches/bastards!

[madmax]

Some alterboy. You gotta be careful around them.

You mean altar boy. "Alterboy" is Alterbabe's squeeze.

[madmax]

I guess "Head in the Sand award" was meant as support of his comments? Expecting the pope to endorse condoms and then bitching when he doesn't is a clear indicator of one's willingness to engage in true discourse.

But I don't come here for this, so I've retracted. The bitchfest (however misguided) can continue.

Part of the problem with the Church is it's denial of reality when dealing with these issues.
It was a valid question.
The Church has had its head in the sand before: clergy abuse just a more recent one. I am a Catholic - I've seen it up close.

[DJ Prophetic]

I joked earlier... but I guess I should state my real opinion...

You can say abstinence is the solution, because it technically is. No sex, no STDs... right? The problem is, is people like to fuck... especially closeted (usually hyper religious) virgin women with no knowledge of safe sex practices. The moment they leave their shelted life and enter the real world, there is dick everywhere. And they all want her.

You can sit on your high horse and spout that abstinence is the key all day... but then every night, the drunk college freshman girls getting hit on while intoxicated will make a bad decision and not know better about getting fucked with a rubber versus fucking without. Teen and young adult pregnancy rate amongst abstinence only households is up like clockwork... while the rate is down amongst the safe sex educated.

I checked my black book and 57 of the 64 18-24 year old virgins that I have fucked never mentioned a rubber UNTIL I put one on. Imagine that rate, or hell... even HALF that rate applied to the grand scale. These are your daughters, sister, wives... going off into the world with nothing but a promise NOT to fuck. It took 3 days to break the mormon girl my freshman year. 3 days until she was drinking and sucking dick... a week until she was fucking. A devout mormon, went to church, had her ring on, never swore, drank, or looked at a boy other than a platonic friend her whole life...

Get off your pedistal and look at reality instead of some idealistic world where no one fucks outside a committed relationship. Sex happens.

I make sure of that.

And before you ask, I have never once had an STD. Not once. TROJAN MAAAAAAAN!

[PopePepe]

Maybe we need another one of these...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Vatican_Council

[DJ Prophetic]

People just need to think for themselves...

[PopePepe]

People just need to think for themselves...

Nah, that's too easy...

[DJ Prophetic]

Reality, oddly enough, is pretty easy :rolleyes:

[PopePepe]

Trying to change thousands of years of tradition in Africa by passing out condoms is as comical as it is wasteful. We need to concentrate on the home front and stop playing globo-cop... or in this case globo-sex educator.

One can hold out hope against hope that tradition can change at some point. The problem is, what happens over there affects us all over here. If we've got the means to advance and educate, why not use it to better the world? A pie-in-the-sky hope? Sure, but education is never wasteful.

[PopePepe]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions... such as the desire to "educate" and "enlighten".

I'll be the one by the fried dough cart!

[SIMMCO]

I'll be the one by the fried dough cart!

is that something you drink wine with , or just a good shot of JD with it ?? :confused:

[PopePepe]

is that something you drink wine with , or just a good shot of JD with it ?? :confused:

A good shot of JD, but even better would be hard apple cider.

[SIMMCO]

A good shot of JD, but even better would be hard apple cider.

try dickins cider , my wife loves it !!
like she said , when its cold outside she loves some "HOT DICKIN CIDER "
even before church on sundays , she wants some "DICKIN CIDER"
even before going to sleep , she could always use some "DICKIN CIDER "

( thank you for walking into this !! ):D

[PopePepe]

try dickins cider , my wife loves it !!
like she said , when its cold outside she loves some "HOT DICKIN CIDER "
even before church on sundays , she wants some "DICKIN CIDER"
even before going to sleep , she could always use some "DICKIN CIDER "

( thank you for walking into this !! ):D

Swing and a hit!

[Ummsure]

Swing and a hit!

But a puff fly ball catch goes to Simmco,, great call on that pitch to throw out there,,, :D

[Ummsure]

try dickins cider , my wife loves it !!
like she said , when its cold outside she loves some "HOT DICKIN CIDER "
even before church on sundays , she wants some "DICKIN CIDER"
even before going to sleep , she could always use some "DICKIN CIDER "

( thank you for walking into this !! ):D

2 things raises the brow,,

One is that she "wants" and "always can use" some Dickin Cider,,, Hmmm you not performin as you may have in the past when you were a bit less fermented?

And 2

Does she ever have some Dickin Cider when your not home?

LOLOL just messing but as you set it up for one you also hung it up for the slam dunk ali-oop.

[SIMMCO]

2 things raises the brow,,

One is that she "wants" and "always can use" some Dickin Cider,,, Hmmm you not performin as you may have in the past when you were a bit less fermented?

And 2

Does she ever have some Dickin Cider when your not home?

LOLOL just messing but as you set it up for one you also hung it up for the slam dunk ali-oop.

good question !! i may need to set up some cameras ,
dickin cider should not be free , :p
at least get a motel !!

[Ummsure]

good question !! i may need to set up some cameras ,
dickin cider should not be free , :p
at least get a motel !!

Or a good reputable 12 step program.. :D

[always]

Part of the problem with the Church is it's denial of reality when dealing with these issues.
It was a valid question.
The Church has had its head in the sand before: clergy abuse just a more recent one. I am a Catholic - I've seen it up close.

So you expect the Church to change 2000 years of doctrine in order "save" a bunch of people who are in the situation they are in in part because they didn't follow the doctrine that is/was already in place?

If the Church was promoting fucking everybody in sight, CAUSING the AIDs epidemic in Africa, then it would make perfect sense to slam the Church for not changing it's stance. The Church's stance is abstinence. Abstinence is 100% effective in stopping the spread of AIDs. But, hey, let's slam the pope for saying this.

Those who follow the Church's teachings believe that God sacrificed his own son in order to establish His church. Do you really believe that those same people are going to change 2000 years of Church teaching in order to save a bunch of people who don't believe in the Church's teaching and who are in their situation specifically because they won't follow the Church's teaching?

So let's summarize. The Church says 100% abstinence. People who don't follow this are dying of and spreading AIDs. So the "solution" proposed here is that the Church should change it's stance on abstinence? That must be the stupidest fucking argument I've ever heard in any discussion ever.

[Laligal]

Abstinence is 100% effective in stopping the spread of AIDs.

Aids is spread in other ways so 100% is not accurate.
But education would be a step in the right direction..
I was brought up Catholic and I disagree with a lot of the teaching so I no longer follow it.

[Ummsure]

Abstinence is 100% effective in stopping the spread of AIDs.

Aids is spread in other ways so 100% is not accurate.
But education would be a step in the right direction..
I was brought up Catholic and I disagree with a lot of the teaching so I no longer follow it.

Good points Lali,, I was thinking 100% was way off. I too am not to sure on the stance taken since the church promotes Abstinence, yet dont follow them selves, also promotes forgiveness to a point of no responcibility. Its great and good to forgive and be forgiven but forgiveness must be earned just as much if not more than trust...

For this I too dont follow the church no more for these and many other reasons.. I dont argue that anyone else cant or shouldnt... to each thier own and go for it... but it wasnt for me.....

[Kenny55]

Wonder if anything would be different if they elected a Pope who was under 100? :confused:

[Gary1963]

Wonder if anything would be different if they elected a Pope who was under 100? :confused:

Doubtfull

[SIMMCO]

Wonder if anything would be different if they elected a Pope who was under 100? :confused:

and actually fucked a woman instead of a alter boy ??:eek:

[Laligal]

and actually fucked a woman instead of a alter boy ??:eek:To bad men are not like women and you would know if he was not a virgin by checking..

[DJ Prophetic]

Abstinence girls still suck dick... and swallow.

Just sayin

[PopePepe]

Abstinence girls still suck dick... and swallow.

Just sayin

They're also more easily persuaded to try anal. You can take all the way to the bank!

[INdymale4oral]

So you expect the Church to change 2000 years of doctrine in order "save" a bunch of people who are in the situation they are in in part because they didn't follow the doctrine that is/was already in place?

If the Church was promoting fucking everybody in sight, CAUSING the AIDs epidemic in Africa, then it would make perfect sense to slam the Church for not changing it's stance. The Church's stance is abstinence. Abstinence is 100% effective in stopping the spread of AIDs. But, hey, let's slam the pope for saying this.

Those who follow the Church's teachings believe that God sacrificed his own son in order to establish His church. Do you really believe that those same people are going to change 2000 years of Church teaching in order to save a bunch of people who don't believe in the Church's teaching and who are in their situation specifically because they won't follow the Church's teaching?

So let's summarize. The Church says 100% abstinence. People who don't follow this are dying of and spreading AIDs. So the "solution" proposed here is that the Church should change it's stance on abstinence? That must be the stupidest fucking argument I've ever heard in any discussion ever.



No, what I expect of the church to to follow what thier leader Jesus Christ said to do. I expect them to do for the least. I expect them to show unconditional love for thier fellow man. I expect them to try to lead the life that Christ asked them to lead. I dont know I might be asking to much, but it seems to me that if you are going to use the new testament church doctrine, then you ought to use all of it. Not just selected parts that you choose to follow. That is what the KKK, and other such splinter groups did, look where it led them.

100% effective......hmmm, ever hear of a little boy named Ryan White? He was from Indiana, and was one of the poster children for actually getting President Regan to admit that AIDS was NOT just a homosexual problem. Ther are a number of cases of men and women getting infectited who are in commited heterosexual relationships, but through some other way contracted AIDS.


If you believe that abstinence is 100% effective, then you might be the stupidest person I have met in a long line of stupid people.

[madmax]

So you expect the Church to change 2000 years of doctrine in order "save" a bunch of people who are in the situation they are in in part because they didn't follow the doctrine that is/was already in place?

If the Church was promoting fucking everybody in sight, CAUSING the AIDs epidemic in Africa, then it would make perfect sense to slam the Church for not changing it's stance. The Church's stance is abstinence. Abstinence is 100% effective in stopping the spread of AIDs. But, hey, let's slam the pope for saying this.

Those who follow the Church's teachings believe that God sacrificed his own son in order to establish His church. Do you really believe that those same people are going to change 2000 years of Church teaching in order to save a bunch of people who don't believe in the Church's teaching and who are in their situation specifically because they won't follow the Church's teaching?

So let's summarize. The Church says 100% abstinence. People who don't follow this are dying of and spreading AIDs. So the "solution" proposed here is that the Church should change it's stance on abstinence? That must be the stupidest fucking argument I've ever heard in any discussion ever.

You are laughable!!!
And you're right - this is a stupid argument, much of it because of your input.
So fucking stupid to say abstinence would solve the problem. DUH!!! Technically, yes - practically, NO!
No one has said that the Church should completely discard their abstinence stance, but it is a one-legged stool.
You obviously don't "get it"...and you're here on a sex forum and you still don't get it, or the hypocrisy of your statements!
BTW: if you had read the article you'd know that there is differing opinion WITHIN THE CHURCH!

[Kenny55]

Maybe this thread should have started in the religious forum? :confused:

[madmax]

Maybe this thread should have started in the religious forum? :confused:

Maybe we should request the admins to move it.

Case in point: An "abstinence" girl I know (19 years old) is now pregnant. Wow, how did that happen?

[Kenny55]

Maybe we should request the admins to move it.

Case in point: An "abstinence" girl I know (19 years old) is now pregnant. Wow, how did that happen?

Good idea!


Just guessing here - swallowed? :confused::D

[PopePepe]

Again, read the reports on Vatican II. The church managed to change it's viewpoint on many issues held fast by the elders. The church has the ability to adapt and change.
What is wrongheaded here is undoing the education given that doesn't agree with "belief."

[Gary1963]

Maybe we should request the admins to move it.

Case in point: An "abstinence" girl I know (19 years old) is now pregnant. Wow, how did that happen?

Maybe Gort can, he seems to have a lot of time on his hands...:D

[SIMMCO]

Case in point: An "abstinence" girl I know (19 years old) is now pregnant. Wow, how did that happen?

was her name Mary ?? was there a bright star in the sky ??