Looking for something!!!

[venomlav]

I apologize now for the BOOK I'm about to write. If you have no intention of offering sincere advice or constructive criticism, don't continue reading. I rarely go a day without someone preaching or spewing hatred (two different things) to me about my lifestyle. And these are (usually) people I know. The rantings of a faceless screen name won't be taken seriously and would be a waste of your time and mine.
The "debate" over gay marriage is honestly bothering me more than it should. I'm a gay male. I'm not a pedophile, a bug chaser, a prostitute, or a lunatic. I AM a christian with a very close relationship with god. In fact I've always felt I had a very strong missionary purpose in life and wanted to teach gods word well into high school. I've always known I was different. Until I learned what being gay was I always felt that god had made this HUGE mistake in giving me a penis instead of a vagina. I had crushes on boys I can remember as far back as 6yo and being attracted to boys. In my dreams I was never a boy I was always a girl, and for every birthday wish and shooting star I wished god would fix the accident or mistake or whatever happened to allow this to happen to me (was he looking the other way?). This isn't to be confused with similar feelings expressed by transexuals. I'm more than content with being a man since learning of homosexuality, which I learned about at 10 or 11 years old through name calling and school yard bullies. I saw an episode of Oprah that touched on this exact topic. Children as young as 7 and 8 feeling wrong and different, explaining feeling exactly like I had felt. Surely most everyone (atleast everyone I've asked) can remember a kid in school that everyone knew was gay. There has always been homosexuality. Before television, radio, and all other forms of mass communication, there are documented accounts of homosexuality. In every country on the planet, there's homosexuality. Doesn't this only prove that homosexuality is something we're either born as or not. I KNOW that I never personally made the decision to be gay. With as much torture as I was put through growing up in rural Kansas I wouldn't have chosen it. NO ONE WOULD HAVE! No matter how massochistic. I struggled with the fact that I knew I was gay for years before coming out at 14. Which wasn't an easy thing to do AT ALL in rural Kansas, but I was a good christian boy, who knew i didn't understand a lot about myself or how my life was supposed to fit together with all of this but I DID know that God would not approve of me living a lie.
The only passage I know of that doesn't involve homosexuality with rape (which I'm not in any way about, and if you know of more please share!!!) is Lev. 18:22 "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; this is detestable." But that's not what homosexuality is about!!! I don't lie with women like I do men, because I'm gay! I only lie with men. Not that the opportunity hasn't presented itself. I wouldn't use a woman to try to convince myself or to "just be sure of" something I already KNOW. I have too much respect and love for other people to do that to somebody. I'm attractive and lived with my best friend in the world (a woman who's now married) for almost 7 years. She's my soul mate! I've never net anyone I connect with better than her and if in 7 years absolutely NOTHING sexual EVER happened with her, it's not going to happen.
NOW for my point (sorry for the length but it was necessary). With the gay marriage ban I've noticed an increase in hostility. Knowing that I was born gay and that you would have to be gay to understand this, I can not accept that the god that I know and love would let me (and millions of others) be born a sinner (I've been given the examples of people not being born liars or thieves either, but the difference is or should be obvious. Thieves and liars have something to gain or hide.). Is there a possibility that the bible has been altered over time or isn't gods word at all? I KNOW once you've grown to know and love God, that questioning what you've always known as his word feels horrible (I've mourned and mourned without any answers to my questions)!!! But is it honestly that unlikely? The bible has been tampered with before, in fact that was the end of midevil times and the birth of scientific exploration! If that's news to you ask and I'll elaborate!
Please only write if you have insight or knowledge I don't know about. I've tried to make it a point of not sounding resentful or unsupportive of new information about the god I love, and would appreciate being treated with the same courtesy.

[malcolan]

God did not create us to be sinners. God created us and gave us a choice, because true love can only be found through choice. The truth is, all of us have fallen short of the grace of God. We are all sinners.

The price for your sins has already been paid. Jesus made the ultimate sacrifice for us all. If you accept Jesus as your Lord and savior, then you will be with the Father. You CAN live forgiven.

This does not mean that I condone your lifestyle, but this is what I believe. You should pray to God to help you be obedient, and use your gift to serve others. It is obvious that you are struggling with this, and I hope that this helps.

Now go to Walmart and pick up "Your Best Life Now" by Joel Osteen. It's only $13, and it can change your life.

Live Forgiven, my friend

[anutherealgod]

dont go to walmart and get some lame ass book,,you need a pair of sheer pantyhose, sandals and a mini dress be the gorgoeous girl youve always been start living as a woman... and stop wasting time believing all this illuminati bible lie,,,,why did they decide to remove the book of jubilee??enoch..??god is annunaki,,nephilim,,creator of the adam the first invetro fertilized genetic experiment,,,humans were made to help in the mines of africa when the anunaki were extracting the deposits gold all this sinner bullshits here to stop you from gaining true insight

[malcolan]

why did they decide to remove the book of jubilee??enoch..??god is annunaki,,nephilim,,creator of the adam the first invetro fertilized genetic experiment,,,humans were made to help in the mines of africa when the anunaki were extracting the deposits gold all this sinner bullshits here to stop you from gaining true insight

I was going to respond to this, but then I decided that I would just be wasting my time. There isn't anybody that would possibly take you serious.

If I were you, though, to make your pagan story a little more believable, you should say that they were mining for diamonds, instead. After all, 90% of the world's diamonds come out of Africa. Never was any gold, though.

Just a thought.

And NO MORE Science Fiction Movies for You!

[Dougie Mac]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have read things that have been written in this website and have seen where some have said that God has no problem with you the way you are living. I am not submitting this to judge you, but to show you in the Bible where you are wrong to think this way. I have proof and if you want to see proof backup the way that I believe, then read further. I am not sending this to try and change your lifestyle. Only you can do that through the grace of God. But, I am doing this to tell you to stop making God a liar just because you have allowed yourselves to believe a lie about the way God wants you to live your life. It isn't even your life any more than my life is mine. God created us, therefore our lives and bodies are his.
Here is why. Paul writes to the Romans in Romans 1:18-32


18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewd it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: (We were born with the knowledge that there is proof that there is a God that exists in heaven and that he created the world made manifest in us, so that we can not say honestly that there is no God.)

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified Him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man, and to birds, and four footed beasts, and creeping things.
(We know that God is real, but we have imagined him as one of us and unperfect. But don't be fooled. The creator is always more powerful than His creation and above it, and perfect when compared to it.)

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen
26 For this cause He gave them up to vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their own lust toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
(We as humans continued in our sinful ways and did not turn to the ways of our creator, so he got out of our way and let us continue in our sin. Let's face it. God created all of us, but He did so that we all have the ability to choose to follow His will or not. He wants us to want to follow Him by our own desire, He doesn't want to force us to follow Him, or He would have created robots. It would be unjust for anyone to say that God made you a homosexual. This passage from Paul is proof that homosexuality is an abomination before God. That means that it would be Physically and spiritually impossible and against the nature of God to create you this way or intend for you to be this way. He did not!)
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a probate mind to do those things which are not convenient:
(God would rather we fall into our sin than to force us to seek His will and obey it, which is why He gave us the ability to make our own choices in life)
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgement of God, (not me) that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

So, there you have it, from the Bible. I did put in parentheses what the passage is trying to tell us as the body of Christ. But it is all pretty much black and white and clearly understandable. If you feel judged, be it not by me, but by your Creator in heaven, Whom one day if not today, your knee will bow to and your tongue will confess to that He is your Lord, God and Creator. And, hopefully before that day you will at least have the honesty in your hearts to admit that He did not create you to be Gay or Lesbian!

By the way, God didn't make any mistakes in creating you, you made the mistake by believing Satan's lies. But, all is not lost. You are still forgivable. God hates the sin, not the sinner, and Homosexuality is an abomination before the Lord. God did not make you to be an abomination, because God doesn't make trash, man does. :) I will pray for you brother. Tell me, you said you were a Christian. What is your definition of what a Christian is?

[malcolan]

At no time did I mean to suggest that God approves of this lifestyle. You have clearly spelled out that God, in fact, does not approve.

I was merely trying to give the original poster hope. Hope that he may find his way back back to the church and with Faith, back into the Grace of God through Christ.

To follow your lead...Paul goes on to address the Romans.
Romans 3:11-18 (NIV)

11 There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God.

12 All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one.

13 Their throats are open graves; their tongues practice deceit. The poison of vipers is on their lips.

14 Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.

15 Their feet are swift to shed blood;

16 ruin and misery mark their ways,

17 and the way of peace they do not know.

18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Later, in Romans 3:21-26

21 But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.

22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,

23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

24 and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

25 God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forebearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished--

26 he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.


:rolleyes:

[Dougie Mac]

Well put. I'm glad to know that I am not the only "Bible Thumper" in here. You know, I really don't like being labeled like that, simply because I believe that the Bible is the UNDESPUTED Word of God. Written by man, yes, but they were all influenced by the Holy Spirit in what they wrote. They Don't call Muslims Koran Korrallers, but they have to dump on us. Of course like the Bible says, "In the last days there will be those that Mock you and Scoff at you for Following God, But Blessed is he who suffers for my sake. Blessed is he who is martyred for my cause." Not exactly verbatum, but that was what he was saying though. Stand firm and fight the good fight inhere with me, maybe we can plant enough good seeds in here to win some to the Lord. ;)

[leecappella]

Dougie Mac-Of course like the Bible says, "In the last days there will be those that Mock you and Scoff at you for Following God, But Blessed is he who suffers for my sake. Blessed is he who is martyred for my cause."

I'd say that could apply to anyone who loves God and who happens to be gay as well. Hmmm!!!

[Dougie Mac]

I'll say this, YOU'RE RIGHT ON THAT ONE! SURPRISED?

[justice223]

dont go to walmart and get some lame ass book,,you need a pair of sheer pantyhose, sandals and a mini dress be the gorgoeous girl youve always been start living as a woman... and stop wasting time believing all this illuminati bible lie,,,,why did they decide to remove the book of jubilee??enoch..??god is annunaki,,nephilim,,creator of the adam the first invetro fertilized genetic experiment,,,humans were made to help in the mines of africa when the anunaki were extracting the deposits gold all this sinner bullshits here to stop you from gaining true insight

it is said that wisemen learn more from fools than fools from the wise.

i challenge everyone to spend a little time researching what this person had to say and decide for oneself, who is the fool and who is the wise?

the important thing is not that one is made to agree with this person, but that one will have considered the mere possiblity of a reality far different than that to which they cling, sought the answers for themself, and in the end made up their own mind.

[Isaiah_six]

Venomlav:

Hello my brother. I will answer your question.

First I want to empathize. I have been a flaming heterosexual for 20 years; I am no stranger to "sexual immorality," have experienced unlawful desires and therefore am in no position to condemn anyone. (Also, condemnation is sinful.) One of my two brothers is gay. I am a guitarist who accompanies a gay singer in a Christian band.

You ask, "Is there a possibility that the Bible has been altered over time or isn't God's word at all?"

Yes it is possible. ... However, my answer is, "The Bible is God's word."

Two books I recommend on this subject are "Inerrancy," edited by Norman L. Geisler, and "The New Evidence that Demands a Verdict" by Josh McDowell.

Here are 10 reasons why I believe in an inerrant (truthful) Bible.

1. The Bible claims to be inerrant. Writers of the Old Testament proclaim the Bible as the Word of God over 3,000 times. Among countless examples, see Psalms 119:160. The most notable NT scripture is 2 Timothy 3:16.

2. Jesus lifted the Old Testament, sharpened its point of truth ... in no case did he discredit its authority. He quoted extensively from the Old Testament, always upholding the Scripture. When tempted by the devil in Matthew 4:4, Jesus replied, “It is written: ‘Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”

3. Christ was a liar, a lunatic or the Lord: A liar if he knew he was not God but said he was God; a lunatic if he said he was God but knew he was not, and needlessly walked to the cross and bore unbelievable persecution and pain. Writes C.S. Lewis: “You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher.”

4. More directly to your question, yes, it is true that at times the Bible has been altered and in fact we have with new translations corrected some mistakes (notably within the King James Version). Some of what you hear is actually errors in Christian teaching and interpretation over time; I am sure today much of our Christian literature is a false restatement of secular belief (exhibit: "Your Best Life Now," which misinterprets scripture to write hall passes for self-centered prosperity seekers.)... In terms of proven correctness, the Bible has no compare in the realm of ancient literature. The original Greek "autographs" may have disappeared, but the Bible is unparalleled in numbers of early manuscripts verifying its accuracy: 5,366 early copies have been accumulated of the New Testament, dating from 50 to 225 years of its original writing. No secular work comes close. The most preserved work is Homer’s Iliad, but only 643 copes remain from no sooner than 400 years after the original. So in fact, with the Bible, we have been dealing with the same manuscript for at least 1,800 years. If anyone re-wrote it, blame the earliest Christians. But first, see items 5 & 6.

5. Further archaeological work verifies the facts of such historical writers as Luke, author of the gospel and Acts. We see him as a gospel writer when actually he is one of the world's most revered if controversial historians. His facts continue to pass test after test.

6. The early Christian movement points to a radical reality. Those people were obviously freaking out. Something really happened. The night before his death, Peter denied Jesus three times. After the ascension Peter because a Jesus Freak! He gave up everything to spread the word. Even more, consider James: The half-brother of Jesus was a silent skeptic all through Jesus' life. Something obviously happened to wake up James, and I suggest that was the resurrection.

7. Biblical unity points to a truthful foundation. The Bible embraces divergent and complex topics that absorb all aspects of life while maintaining unity, a central focus and steadfast conviction. It was written over some 1,600 years, by 36 or more authors of three languages. The writers assumed all types of vocations (politician, fisherman, butler, prophet, physician, tax collector, king and so on).

8. Readership since the Bible closed has been immensely divergent. The Book has been translated into virtually every language, speaking to the masses in cross-cultural and timeless ways.

9. If you created an anthology of all the greatest literature outside the Bible and put it together, you would have difficulty matching the amazing literary appeal of the Bible, combined with its abundant spiritual truth. In fact, all the human science and literature renders itself schizophrenic and paradoxical. One would have to carefully construct any anthology to provide a legitimate counterpart to the Bible; still, any attempt would fall woefully short.

10. Finally, could a book so honest be anything but truthful? From the drunkenness of Noah to the promiscuity of Solomon, certainly no major Bible character other than Jesus Christ was perfect.

This bodes well for you, me and everyone.

If someone truly condemns you for your sexuality, they will be held accountable. However, it is possible that the Holy Spirit condemns you, and that's really the only one you have to worry about. Please God, not man.

God is constant. Man is ever changing. While at times the church (people) may have been too strict, or too beurocratic, today we are defined largely by a liberal church inflicted with much of society's relativism, liberalism and political correctness. Many people are too nice to correct me, and whenever someone does I see them as bigots, hypocrites and condemners. As I age, however, I learn for myself what God has to say. One by one my rebellious vices begin falling aside. I am left with serious issues. I will probably die before I am perfect. Lord have mercy on me.

I pray for blessings in your journey. Trials build perseverance, and you my friend face great burdens. All things work for the good for those who love him.

I am so thankful you are in his kingdom. His plan for us is to love him with all our hearts, minds and souls. And love our neighbors (even those who hate us).

Peace and love.

[bruceishome@hotmail.com]

First, I would like to express my love for you as a fellow follower of Jesus. We are family. This is an extremely controversial topic, as is abortion, capitol punishment and many others. That is why we must first get out of our mind and get into God's. What we think, feel, or believe is of little importance. Our experiences and feelings and thoughts and beliefs must be brought into submission to God's thoughts and feelings. There is nothing He says that is not TRUTH. You have a plethora of issues in your message that can require hours upon hours of discussion. The only view that matters is that of the Lord as He is the Creator, pure, holy, just and utterly unblemished by sin. This life IS NOT about us. A hard concept for a human to acknowledge. I will skip the validity of the Bible and get to your fascination with other men. I will be happy to offer facts on the Bible's inerrancy later, if you wish. From here out I will speak with the understanding that the Bible is the mind of God revealed. The Bible definitely states that homosexuality is sin. You are not a sinner because you sin, rather you sin because you are a sinner. You do not sin ( in any form ) to become a sinner. You sin because you were born a sinner, infected by the cancer of it. For you, homosexuality is the temptation that snares you. For others, it may be different.To say that you were born a homosexual, is to say that God created you with a "natural" desire that is contrary to his desires. Let's stop here. If that be true, let's forget Christianity altogether as we would have a VERY unjust God. God teaches us by example and as we learn His nature, we do not have to guess about him. He is ALWAYS the same. It is unthinkable that He would create you as a homosexual when He is so against it. You would have no chance to please Him. An atrocious mistake by believers is to single out a sin like yours as "worse." The Bible names seven abominations and those 7 cover EVERY sin. In fact, idolatry covers every sin by itself as we commit idolatry any time we sin. Idolatry is putting anything before God, and sin is just that. You have a desire for other men. A desire not common to all humans. For me, I desire females that are not my wife. SIN. I want them. Badly. You and I are in the same boat. We are not born in God's image as Adam and Eve were. In Genesis 5:3 we see that Adam had a son born "in his own (Adam's) image". Sin removed God's image from us and we are born now in the image of sinful man. In Philippians 2:7, we see where Jesus (God in the flesh) came to Earth, born in the image of MAN to bring us back into the image of God. Please study James 1:13-15. You have a carnal nature and for you it directs itself to homosexuality. For others, it may be stealing, lying, adultery, greed, booze/drugs, gossip, self-righteousness, etc. Sin is a CHOICE. You choose to follow your carnal nature and are looking for an avenue to justify it. God says it is sin. YOU have to choose to say no to it. Just as I have to CHOOSE to not let myself follow and capture every skirt I see. We face the same struggle. And that is saying no to sin. I can tell you about how I desire women and have from an age as early as 5. That does not justify my weakness, it only validates that I have a desire. If you are interested in more of my thoughts, let me know. I have much to say, and have scripture (in context) to explain where I am coming from. You are in my prayers. -Pastor Bruce

[bruceishome@hotmail.com]

The Bible says that we are spiritually dead until quickened (brought to life) by the Holy Spirit. Before sin, God communicated with Adam and Eve through their Spirit. Then, spiritual death came, followed by physical death. If you are not quickened by the Holy Spirit, it is IMPOSSIBLE for you to know the ABSOLUTE assurance ( and ABSOLUTE TRUTH ) a true follower of Jesus has. It will seem like hogwash and you are apt to believe anything told you by anyone. See, God speaks to your spirit, and what He says must be Spiritually appraised ( 1 Corinthians 2:1-16). Impossible if your spirit is dead, huh? The person who posted this message, and others that deny God and his reality (and recommend looking elsewhere for "truth") are following human wisdom, not wisdom of the Creator. Two direct opposites. Until your spirit is brought to life, you will not KNOW truth. Once you have bowed to the Holy Spirit, you will know spiritual truth as certainly as you know your own birthday. Until then, Christians will be simple - minded, brainwashed beings to you. And that is true to some degree. We are having our brains washed of the filth of the world by the true knowledge that comes from the One who created all truths. We must come to God as little children ( forgetting the fallible "truths" bestowed upon our being by the world ) and re-learning from our Father what truth is. Starting our learning process over again. Aka, being born again. Aka, being quickened byt he Holy Spirit. I love those of you who do not know God. I pray for your quickening so you can live and percieve life in all it's glorious truth. - Pastor Bruce

[justalittlecurious]

Hey venomlav...

I don't mean to pry and if you don't feel like answering you don't have to. But were you ever molested or sexually abused as a young child? Or did anything tramatic happen to you? I'm just trying to get a feeling for where you are coming from.

And also, I read your post and the fact that you consider yourself a Christian and are really trying to follow God. I was wondering then what your stance was on sexual purity before marriage. I am not asking that in an accusing way, I am just wondering.

Sorry for the questions, just wondering?

[Wallis]

Malcolan, ooh. . . please do a Google on "gold" and "Africa," and you will be surprised just how much ancient mining of gold there was.

-------

Now, as to the "absolute truth": the writers of the Bible clearly point out that God is unfathomable. He cannot be understood nor packaged to the point of understanding by our human limitations. The fact that we have put our hope and trust in the all-being God, which equates to faith, plus our individual experiences in believing that God has acted in our lives and will continue to act in our lives until we depart "this veil of tears" is enough. That the living Christ can be seen shining through our words, thoughts, and deeds for all to see is proof enough that we have put our hope and trust in God.

-------

It is not important for the Bible to be inerrant for the truth as each of us perceives it to be valid. For the one thing, the Bible is far from inerrant. It was never meant to be inerrant. It was never meant to be a history.

When I read and hear of the Bible being inerrant, I am reminded so much of how Islam regards the Arabic version (the one and only "perfect" version, mind you) as the actual words and, by association, the essence of God.

The Bible's lietmotifs, portrayed in so many various ways, often contradicting in "factual" content, center around a theology that God is God, and God is the only ticket out of this hell that we call Earth or life or temporal existence.

The fact that the Christ often quoted the scriptures, which were known to almost every Jew around, having been virtually spoon fed to them from birth (see Edersheim's works online about Jewish lifestyles and homelife), which have been deemed as Old Testament by "modern" theologians, because he was tying into the tradition (torah) as the Jews were extremely familiar with. He did not validate any historicity of the scriptures but the core of that theology, which has not changed even through the death and resurrection.

Even as we live this life as if we are all in a coliseum surrounded by lions and murderous gladiators, it is God who is our salvation. He has the right to meet out deserved justice (if you will) and destruction, but He has stayed His "hand" and chooses to save rather than condemn.