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Old 11-15-2012, 12:56 PM   #1
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Default What Does Support For Israel Really Mean?

Once again hostilities boil over in the Middle East and Christian and Right-Wing Radio commentators ask 'How far are we going to support Israel'? Whether we will "back" Israel? What does that mean EXACTLY. We give them $10 Billion dollars in aid every year. (Money "borrowed" from China as Jay Sekulow himself points out). We have been doing this for at least 40 years. We have fought three big wars in the Middle East in some way having to do with Israel at the cost of many lives and untold fortunes in the past 30 years. So Israel gets itself into another scrape and looks to us for help? For the last two years the Republicans have been telling us that we're broke. So how the Hell are we supposed to come up with money to have another major war in the Middle East?

Truman "supported" Israel, but not with troops or aid, so why is everyone thinking that Obama should step into the fray? Truman may been in moral support with Israel but I doubt that he would have been in favor of 64 years of war.

It's time for Israel to learn how to make peace. It's not going to be easy. They have no choice. Stop electing far right extremists and deal with reality. They can do almost anything if they put their mind to it-they don't want to. If they need money they can go to Uncle France, Uncle Brittain, Uncle Germany and Uncle Europe. Uncle Sam needs to tell them to grow up and deal fairly with their neighbors.

If we have to start a war-it would be cheaper for us to settle them all over here than go down that road. There's not that many of them.
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Old 11-15-2012, 01:13 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Morbidus View Post
Once again hostilities boil over in the Middle East and Christian and Right-Wing Radio commentators ask 'How far are we going to support Israel'? Whether we will "back" Israel? What does that mean EXACTLY. We give them $10 Billion dollars in aid every year. (Money "borrowed" from China as Jay Sekulow himself points out). We have been doing this for at least 40 years. We have fought three big wars in the Middle East in some way having to do with Israel at the cost of many lives and untold fortunes in the past 30 years. So Israel gets itself into another scrape and looks to us for help? For the last two years the Republicans have been telling us that we're broke. So how the Hell are we supposed to come up with money to have another major war in the Middle East?

Truman "supported" Israel, but not with troops or aid, so why is everyone thinking that Obama should step into the fray? Truman may been in moral support with Israel but I doubt that he would have been in favor of 64 years of war.

It's time for Israel to learn how to make peace. It's not going to be easy. They have no choice. Stop electing far right extremists and deal with reality. They can do almost anything if they put their mind to it-they don't want to. If they need money they can go to Uncle France, Uncle Brittain, Uncle Germany and Uncle Europe. Uncle Sam needs to tell them to grow up and deal fairly with their neighbors.

If we have to start a war-it would be cheaper for us to settle them all over here than go down that road. There's not that many of them.
How do you make peace with a people that have sworn to wipe your country and your people off the earth? You fight and win or you die and disappear. They have been living the alternative since May 14, 1948. It hasn't been a real peace but it has only had a few short spurts of real all out war. So now one of their enemies is on the verge of having a capability to incinerating the entire area. So, the question again is .... what to do? Fight and win or disappear? What would you do if it was the USA?
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:59 PM   #3
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Default Who Is The Enemy?

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How do you make peace with a people that have sworn to wipe your country and your people off the earth?
That is not an honest appraisal in the first place. There was NO COUNTRY prior to 1900 or so with only a very small amount of "Jews" living in PALESTINE. it had been that way for Oh, I don't know, give or take 1800 years or so. That's a very good point-in fact it is the point. Why would you make a "home" in the midst of hostile enemies? Of course, yes, that's considered a "miracle". Which it is of sorts. A miracle ONLY with the assistance of the rest of the world pitching in. (And let's be honest-by terror and violence inflicted on its original inhabitants). It isn't MY problem. It isn't America's problem. It isn't Canada's problem. It isn't England's problem. (Although it used to be and Israeli-Jews hated the English as badly as they hated the Arabs-so they pulled out). It isn't Europe's problem. It IS Israel's problem! And only TWO solutions exist: For one side to Genocide the other-like you say. Who wins? I don't know. I don't care. If we continue to choose sides-it upsets the balance and the political reality can never take place. The best thing for America and Europe to do is get as far away from this conflict as we can. They, the Israelis/Arabs will continue to squablle long after we are all gone. Nothing we can or should do about it. Its just like two next door neighbors continually fighting or a nasty divorcing couple. That's your answer-interference is ENABALING an unrealistict political reality.

So do you wish the USA to participate in this Genocide of one side over another? Is it really that simple? Anyone who can make a statement like that has a bias. The REALITY is we are NOT going to participate in ANOTHER costly ground war without RAISING TAXES-you idiots!

Last edited by Morbidus; 11-16-2012 at 03:01 PM.
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Old 11-16-2012, 03:18 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morbidus View Post
Once again hostilities boil over in the Middle East and Christian and Right-Wing Radio commentators ask 'How far are we going to support Israel'? Whether we will "back" Israel? What does that mean EXACTLY. We give them $10 Billion dollars in aid every year. (Money "borrowed" from China as Jay Sekulow himself points out). We have been doing this for at least 40 years. We have fought three big wars in the Middle East in some way having to do with Israel at the cost of many lives and untold fortunes in the past 30 years. So Israel gets itself into another scrape and looks to us for help? For the last two years the Republicans have been telling us that we're broke. So how the Hell are we supposed to come up with money to have another major war in the Middle East?

Truman "supported" Israel, but not with troops or aid, so why is everyone thinking that Obama should step into the fray? Truman may been in moral support with Israel but I doubt that he would have been in favor of 64 years of war.

It's time for Israel to learn how to make peace. It's not going to be easy. They have no choice. Stop electing far right extremists and deal with reality. They can do almost anything if they put their mind to it-they don't want to. If they need money they can go to Uncle France, Uncle Brittain, Uncle Germany and Uncle Europe. Uncle Sam needs to tell them to grow up and deal fairly with their neighbors.

If we have to start a war-it would be cheaper for us to settle them all over here than go down that road. There's not that many of them.
You make it sound like Israel is to blame. Are you overlooking the fact that Hamas started this war by firing rockets into Israel everyday and that Israel is RESPONDING!

How would think if Mexico started lobbing rockets over the fence?
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Old 11-16-2012, 03:49 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Morbidus View Post
That is not an honest appraisal in the first place. There was NO COUNTRY prior to 1900 or so with only a very small amount of "Jews" living in PALESTINE. it had been that way for Oh, I don't know, give or take 1800 years or so. That's a very good point-in fact it is the point. Why would you make a "home" in the midst of hostile enemies? Of course, yes, that's considered a "miracle". Which it is of sorts. A miracle ONLY with the assistance of the rest of the world pitching in. (And let's be honest-by terror and violence inflicted on its original inhabitants). It isn't MY problem. It isn't America's problem. It isn't Canada's problem. It isn't England's problem. (Although it used to be and Israeli-Jews hated the English as badly as they hated the Arabs-so they pulled out). It isn't Europe's problem. It IS Israel's problem! And only TWO solutions exist: For one side to Genocide the other-like you say. Who wins? I don't know. I don't care. If we continue to choose sides-it upsets the balance and the political reality can never take place. The best thing for America and Europe to do is get as far away from this conflict as we can. They, the Israelis/Arabs will continue to squablle long after we are all gone. Nothing we can or should do about it. Its just like two next door neighbors continually fighting or a nasty divorcing couple. That's your answer-interference is ENABALING an unrealistict political reality.

So do you wish the USA to participate in this Genocide of one side over another? Is it really that simple? Anyone who can make a statement like that has a bias. The REALITY is we are NOT going to participate in ANOTHER costly ground war without RAISING TAXES-you idiots!
Well, they are there now and yes we helped put them there. I'm afraid it is as you say that one side has to wipe out the other to finally stop the violence. But will it actually stop? I don't think so. We sell arms or have sold arms to both sides so I guess we have enabled both sides. There is no clear cut right and there is no clear cut wrong unless you can say both sides are wrong even though both feel they are right. Coexist? That is the hope and that is what has actually transpired since 1948. The conflict is a microcosm of human life on this planet. I feel that we have prevented both sides from genocide and because of that we have won since 1948. I hope we keep winning. I don't want to see or know about genocide of either side.
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Old 11-17-2012, 08:00 AM   #6
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"Don't worry Israel; Obama has your back."

An Orthodox Jew from New York got his Twitter account suspended for posting this cartoon. Protect free speech or it will go away.
What about protecting Truthful speech too?????

Last edited by hrdguera; 11-17-2012 at 08:04 AM.
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Old 11-17-2012, 02:25 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Wouldhe View Post
You make it sound like Israel is to blame. Are you overlooking the fact that Hamas started this war by firing rockets into Israel everyday and that Israel is RESPONDING!

How would think if Mexico started lobbing rockets over the fence?
Why isn't Israel to "blame"? You make it sound as if Hamas/PA have been fighting a much superior military force for absolutely no reason whatsover. The hostilities were born 64 and more years ago and Israel-always having the upper hand has had no reason to try and end them with their "sworn enemies" for 64 years. It's a little odd don't you think that Israel has had that reletively small area under constant surveillance all this time and they didn't know that these people were amassing rockets? (Rockets incidently that for the most part are built so that they can't hit the side of a barn). (The tally is 3-52 deaths, if you are counting. As it always is in these skirmishes-a lopsided balance). You can't even take your rowboat onto the Med. Sea without an Israeli gunship blowing it up. Israel has assinated whomever it pleases without trial around the world. (And now so do we-we've had good teachers).

It's interesting you bring up Mexico. Remember that we actually did fight a war with Mexico over territory too. I don't know where you've been but perhaps you have never heard of the problems with our border. (I know more about the Canadian border that "Canadians like Americans but don't want to be Americans" and there is a certain tension there too).

Look, as I say-I don't care. If you want US ground forces to fight for Israel-I want the RIght-Wing to step up to the plate and INCREASE TAXES BY 20% ON everything across the board. You are NOT going to get away with that bullshit this time: We want our war-Our Way-Salute and shit but not pay taxes for it! Screw you-it won't happen. There is NO reason for us to get involved in this because of 6 million American Jewish pop and 5.6 Israeli population. It doesn't make sense and doesn't make economic sense-sorry my friend.

As far as freedom of speech goes I wonder what the reaction would be if it were a picture of "Jesus"?
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Old 11-17-2012, 02:59 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hrdguera View Post


"Don't worry Israel; Obama has your back."

An Orthodox Jew from New York got his Twitter account suspended for posting this cartoon. Protect free speech or it will go away.
What about protecting Truthful speech too?????
yeah... that is "truthful speech"...
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Old 11-17-2012, 05:29 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Morbidus View Post
Why isn't Israel to "blame"? You make it sound as if Hamas/PA have been fighting a much superior military force for absolutely no reason whatsover. The hostilities were born 64 and more years ago and Israel-always having the upper hand has had no reason to try and end them with their "sworn enemies" for 64 years. It's a little odd don't you think that Israel has had that reletively small area under constant surveillance all this time and they didn't know that these people were amassing rockets? (Rockets incidently that for the most part are built so that they can't hit the side of a barn). (The tally is 3-52 deaths, if you are counting. As it always is in these skirmishes-a lopsided balance). You can't even take your rowboat onto the Med. Sea without an Israeli gunship blowing it up. Israel has assinated whomever it pleases without trial around the world. (And now so do we-we've had good teachers).

It's interesting you bring up Mexico. Remember that we actually did fight a war with Mexico over territory too. I don't know where you've been but perhaps you have never heard of the problems with our border. (I know more about the Canadian border that "Canadians like Americans but don't want to be Americans" and there is a certain tension there too).

Look, as I say-I don't care. If you want US ground forces to fight for Israel-I want the RIght-Wing to step up to the plate and INCREASE TAXES BY 20% ON everything across the board. You are NOT going to get away with that bullshit this time: We want our war-Our Way-Salute and shit but not pay taxes for it! Screw you-it won't happen. There is NO reason for us to get involved in this because of 6 million American Jewish pop and 5.6 Israeli population. It doesn't make sense and doesn't make economic sense-sorry my friend.

As far as freedom of speech goes I wonder what the reaction would be if it were a picture of "Jesus"?
First of all, all Hamas has to do is quit firing rockets into Israel and everything will cease - no brainer! It's not Israel trying to invade or do away with a nation of people. All the Palestinians have to do is cease the hostilities and try to live in peace and things would be better.

Secondly, Mexico is not firing rockets into the U.S. - duh! Just because the rockets aren't accurate doesn't mean it's okay to shoot them into Israel. Of course they knew they were amassing rockets but people like you kept them from going into Gaza and stop the build-up. Now they started shooting them and you're blaming Israel for not doing something before it got to this.

You are kind of misinformed aren't you. Israel only attacks and boards ships suspected of carrying the rockets you approve of. They only assassinate those that need be. You make it sound like Israel is trying to take over the world and acting like a bunch of terrorists.

I didn't say anything about wanting U.S. ground forces to fight. I don't want the U.S. involved either. We need to stay out of it.
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:21 PM   #10
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First of all, all Hamas has to do is quit firing rockets into Israel and everything will cease - no brainer! It's not Israel trying to invade or do away with a nation of people. All the Palestinians have to do is cease the hostilities and try to live in peace and things would be better.

Secondly, Mexico is not firing rockets into the U.S. - duh! Just because the rockets aren't accurate doesn't mean it's okay to shoot them into Israel. Of course they knew they were amassing rockets but people like you kept them from going into Gaza and stop the build-up. Now they started shooting them and you're blaming Israel for not doing something before it got to this.

You are kind of misinformed aren't you. Israel only attacks and boards ships suspected of carrying the rockets you approve of. They only assassinate those that need be. You make it sound like Israel is trying to take over the world and acting like a bunch of terrorists.

I didn't say anything about wanting U.S. ground forces to fight. I don't want the U.S. involved either. We need to stay out of it.
I think you are spot on and I agree completely. The only thing Israel asked from us is our agreement that they have the right to protect themselves. They are very capable of handling this on their own as they have in the past. I wouldn't want to be living in Gaza right now.
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