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Old 11-20-2012, 09:39 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by hrdguera View Post
Leveling those complaints about people that disagree with you is right out of the playbook, the "Rules for Radicals" by Saul Alinsky playbook.
And they do it every time.
So you're saying that McCain is using Alinsky's playbook.
Geezus its funny when you step right in your own pile.

Clyburn was succinct: call it a mistake, but don't call it incompetence. That was right on the money because it allows the disagreement and the correct accusation.
It turns out there was NOTHING on which to base a claim of incompetence.
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:50 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by madmax View Post
So you're saying that McCain is using Alinsky's playbook.
Geezus its funny when you step right in your own pile.

Clyburn was succinct: call it a mistake, but don't call it incompetence. That was right on the money because it allows the disagreement and the correct accusation.
It turns out there was NOTHING on which to base a claim of incompetence.
The claim was that any attack on Rice was just sexist.
The claims have always been that any attack on the President was racist.
Don't lose sight of the topic.
Everything can be reduced to simple unfavorable terms in the Rule book.
Here you are doing it too.

For Example: http://www.usatoday.com/story/theova...ccain/1716853/

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Old 11-20-2012, 09:56 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by hrdguera View Post
The claim was that any attack on Rice was just sexist.
The claims have always been that any attack on the President was racist.
Don't lose sight of the topic.
Everything can be reduced to simple unfavorable terms in the Rule book.
Here you are doing it too.
You've done it yourself, over and over again. The hypocrisy is laughable!
Let's get real: the attack on Rice was baseless. She was going off an official CIA report. There was NO justification for calling her "incompetent" - NONE.

Do I think McCain is intentionally being racist or sexist? No, I don't.

I don't follow any "playbook". Logic is enough for me.
Seems that the only people that pay this much attention to Alinsky are right wing nuts.

And what do you mean "for example"... its the same example I already posted...
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Last edited by madmax; 11-20-2012 at 09:59 AM.
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:28 AM   #164
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You've done it yourself, over and over again. The hypocrisy is laughable!
Let's get real: the attack on Rice was baseless. She was going off an official CIA report. There was NO justification for calling her "incompetent" - NONE.

Do I think McCain is intentionally being racist or sexist? No, I don't.

I don't follow any "playbook". Logic is enough for me.
Seems that the only people that pay this much attention to Alinsky are right wing nuts.

And what do you mean "for example"... its the same example I already posted...
You are dense sometimes. You so want to argue that you can't see straight.
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:13 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by hrdguera View Post
You are dense sometimes. You so want to argue that you can't see straight.
WTF???? LOL

OK... you don't have a point, so you "go by Alinsky".

See? Pure hypocrisy...

Fact: Rice was given official intelligence data. Her statements were based on said intelligence reports. Branding someone as "incompetent" for forward official information is baseless. What part of that do you not understand?

Simple statement: I don't think McCain is intentionally being racist or sexist. What part of that do you not understand?

Fact: The only people on these pages that bring up Alinsky are right wingers. What part of that do you not understand?

And what part of "your example is what I already posted" do you not understand?

Apparently ALL of it is over your head.
But, yeah... I'm dense. LOL!

I had to look up "Rules for Radicals" the supposed playbook. But the funny thing I found?: " Former Republican House Majority Leader Dick Armey also gives copies of Alinsky's book Rules for Radicals to Tea Party leaders."
Too damn funny!

well, I found the "Rules", lazy because I have a lot to do today, so this is just Wiki stuff:

RULE 1: “Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have.” Power is derived from 2 main sources – money and people. “Have-Nots” must build power from flesh and blood.
RULE 2: “Never go outside the expertise of your people.” It results in confusion, fear and retreat. Feeling secure adds to the backbone of anyone.
RULE 3: “Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy.” Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty.
RULE 4: “Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.” If the rule is that every letter gets a reply, send 30,000 letters. You can kill them with this because no one can possibly obey all of their own rules.
RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions.
RULE 6: “A good tactic is one your people enjoy.” They’ll keep doing it without urging and come back to do more. They’re doing their thing, and will even suggest better ones.
RULE 7: “A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.” Don’t become old news.
RULE 8: “Keep the pressure on. Never let up.” Keep trying new things to keep the opposition off balance. As the opposition masters one approach, hit them from the flank with something new.
RULE 9: “The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.” Imagination and ego can dream up many more consequences than any activist.
RULE 10: “If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and become a positive.” Violence from the other side can win the public to your side because the public sympathizes with the underdog.
RULE 11: “The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.” Never let the enemy score points because you’re caught without a solution to the problem.
RULE 12: “Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions.

You tried Rule 5 here. Ain't gonna work, because I find any "ridicule" coming from you as just more hilarious hypocrisy.
You use 9 and 12 all the time.
Now I know why you concentrate on Alinsky so much!
Good lord you are so easy... like shooting fish in a barrel!
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:06 AM   #166
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Rice was given a statement to present but according to General Patreas that was not the statement given by the CIA. According to him the report was changed somewhere along the way. The State dept. watched it live. Everyone new it was a terrorist attack including reporters. Rice was given a report and sent out on 5 stations to give this report. The administration played her for a fool. The incompetance is in allowing herself to be played. Ok for a press secretary not our UN Ambassador and possible Secretary of State.
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:36 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by KWSeeks View Post
Rice was given a statement to present but according to General Patreas that was not the statement given by the CIA. According to him the report was changed somewhere along the way. The State dept. watched it live. Everyone new it was a terrorist attack including reporters. Rice was given a report and sent out on 5 stations to give this report. The administration played her for a fool. The incompetance is in allowing herself to be played. Ok for a press secretary not our UN Ambassador and possible Secretary of State.
It's not incompetence to take an official intelligence briefing and forward those results.
It was an attack - period. It happened simultaneously with protest all over the Muslim world about the film.



I guess this bears repeating:
Here's the real story:
David Petraeus, former CIA director, has testified on Capitol Hill that 'talking points' on Benghazi initially prepared by the CIA were subsequently altered before being given to Ambassador Susan Rice.
Far from expressing spontaneous or even personal opinions, Obama administration officials appearing on Sunday talk shows, as Rice did in the aftermath of the September 11th Benghazi attack, are given a virtual script beforehand.
These are usually distributed on Saturday night, when a conference call or meeting is held to go over key points.
As President Obama put in this week, Rice 'made an appearance at the request of the White House in which she gave her best understanding of the intelligence that had been provided to her'.
When foreign policy is involved, these 'talking points' are coordinated by the National Security Council after inputs from agencies throughout the U.S. government.
Representative Peter King of the House Intelligence Committee spoke on Friday of an 'interagency process' that Petraeus had said had changed the initial CIA assessment of the events in Benghazi.
'He said that the talking points that were drafted [by the CIA] were specific about an al-Qaeda affiliate...after they went through that process, whatever that process is, which they seem unclear about, that was taken out.'
King added that he had 'got the impression about seven, eight, nine different agencies' had been involved in drafting the talking points.
There are 16 different agencies in the U.S. intelligence community. In addition, it is overseen by the Directorate of National Intelligence (DNI), which almost certainly would have had an input.
In the case of Benghazi, the Defence Intelligence Agency (DIA), National Security Agency (NSA) and FBI would almost certainly have been involved in drafting the talking points.
The State Department would also have had a key role, perhaps drawing on work from its Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR), one of the 16 U.S. intelligence agencies.
As well as the DIA input, the Pentagon and perhaps the U.S. Special Operations Command would have been consulted.
Representative Adam Schiff, a Democrat, said that Petraeus had disputed Republican suggestions that politics were involved in altering the talking points.
'There was an inter-agency process to draft it, not a political process. They came up with the best assessment without compromising classified information or sources or methods. So changes were made to protect classified information.'
'The general was adamant there was no politicisation of the process, no White House interference or political agenda.


The categorization of this attack is silly compared to the reality of what happened and what is happening now.
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Old 11-23-2012, 06:19 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by madmax View Post
It's not incompetence to take an official intelligence briefing and forward those results.
It was an attack - period. It happened simultaneously with protest all over the Muslim world about the film.



I guess this bears repeating:
Here's the real story:
David Petraeus, former CIA director, has testified on Capitol Hill that 'talking points' on Benghazi initially prepared by the CIA were subsequently altered before being given to Ambassador Susan Rice.
Far from expressing spontaneous or even personal opinions, Obama administration officials appearing on Sunday talk shows, as Rice did in the aftermath of the September 11th Benghazi attack, are given a virtual script beforehand.
These are usually distributed on Saturday night, when a conference call or meeting is held to go over key points.
As President Obama put in this week, Rice 'made an appearance at the request of the White House in which she gave her best understanding of the intelligence that had been provided to her'.
When foreign policy is involved, these 'talking points' are coordinated by the National Security Council after inputs from agencies throughout the U.S. government.
Representative Peter King of the House Intelligence Committee spoke on Friday of an 'interagency process' that Petraeus had said had changed the initial CIA assessment of the events in Benghazi.
'He said that the talking points that were drafted [by the CIA] were specific about an al-Qaeda affiliate...after they went through that process, whatever that process is, which they seem unclear about, that was taken out.'
King added that he had 'got the impression about seven, eight, nine different agencies' had been involved in drafting the talking points.
There are 16 different agencies in the U.S. intelligence community. In addition, it is overseen by the Directorate of National Intelligence (DNI), which almost certainly would have had an input.
In the case of Benghazi, the Defence Intelligence Agency (DIA), National Security Agency (NSA) and FBI would almost certainly have been involved in drafting the talking points.
The State Department would also have had a key role, perhaps drawing on work from its Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR), one of the 16 U.S. intelligence agencies.
As well as the DIA input, the Pentagon and perhaps the U.S. Special Operations Command would have been consulted.
Representative Adam Schiff, a Democrat, said that Petraeus had disputed Republican suggestions that politics were involved in altering the talking points.
'There was an inter-agency process to draft it, not a political process. They came up with the best assessment without compromising classified information or sources or methods. So changes were made to protect classified information.'
'The general was adamant there was no politicisation of the process, no White House interference or political agenda.


The categorization of this attack is silly compared to the reality of what happened and what is happening now.
Simply stated, The shit the administration was trying to peddle was inaccurate , inconsistent with the knowledge already available, deliberately misleading(that's just a nice way to say it was a damn lie) and was and still is an insult to any person of average intelligence.
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Old 11-23-2012, 08:36 PM   #169
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Simply stated, The shit the administration was trying to peddle was inaccurate , inconsistent with the knowledge already available, deliberately misleading(that's just a nice way to say it was a damn lie) and was and still is an insult to any person of average intelligence.
Well, General Petraeus disagrees with you, and I think he has much more intimate knowledge on the subject. But then expert opinion has never swayed you before, why should it now?

What you, and a few others, keep missing is that your whole conspiracy theory revolves around the identification and classification of the attackers. That's way down the list of the priorities at that time. The intelligence was still being gathered at the time, still being verified.
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Old 02-17-2013, 04:55 PM   #170
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Well, General Petraeus disagrees with you, and I think he has much more intimate knowledge on the subject. But then expert opinion has never swayed you before, why should it now?

What you, and a few others, keep missing is that your whole conspiracy theory revolves around the identification and classification of the attackers. That's way down the list of the priorities at that time. The intelligence was still being gathered at the time, still being verified.
Even though Max is MIA so he can't defend the above, the question remains some 3 months later as to what really happened in Benghazi (and the White House). It is now obvious that Obama either lied about or is covering up the events of 9/11/2012.

David Gregory did a valiant job trying to cover the Presidents ass with talking points but McCain didn't let the media voice of the White House get away with it.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/m...-politics.html

I hope Lindsey Graham sticks to his insistence that the Cabinet posts will be held up until all of the questions about Benghazi are answered.
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