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Old 12-30-2012, 09:17 AM   #241
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Originally Posted by Francoitalianarmy View Post
To Woody's defense, the Brits did do a good job as ammo carriers!
At least we don't shoot guys that are on the same side as us, unlike you clowns!

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So THAT is the reason the Spaniards "Ciesta" 3 times a day and barely have a better track record that Greece?
Things are changing here boy....and not before time. Looks like the whole structure of the working day and fiestas will be changing this year.

There's no 'C' in Siesta ya knob!
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:20 AM   #242
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What??? Geezus man... has the propaganda machine hit you that hard?
No, he left a shotgun in his car.

No propaganda bro... the reports that day, at least on CBS were that the AR was in the trunk... at least that is what I heard, but I COULD have mis-understood it because the focus in my mind was the suffering and more importantly the terror in the minds of the survivors... especially the little girl that played dead... it literally made me sick thinking if my own kids having to go through that.


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The primary weapon used in the attack was a "Bushmaster AR-15 assault-type weapon," said Connecticut State Police Lt. Paul Vance. The rifle is a Bushmaster version of a widely made AR-15, the civilian version of the M-16 rifle used by the U.S. military. The original M-16 patent ran out years ago, and now the AR-15 is manufactured by several gunmakers. Unlike the military version, the AR-15 is a semiautomatic, firing one bullet per squeeze of the trigger. But like the M-16, ammunition is loaded through a magazine. In the school shooting, police say Lanza's rifle used numerous 30-round magazines.

You're avoiding the obvious logical conclusion. That even with the 2 handguns he had, even with an extra clip for them (which would be the logical and probable scenario) his rampage would have been severely limited compared to what he did do at Sandy Hook - over 90 rounds from the AR-15 alone. Then there is the "bravado" that comes from weilding the assault weapon.
Here is the rest of that article... now, do you think the outcome would have been different when it states he had MULTIPLE 15 rd magazines for the handguns with him?

Glock 10 mm handgun

Conn. Police: We have to be sensitive
Investigation to be 'long, painstaking'
Australia's reaction to mass shootings Police haven't said what kind of Glock 10 mm handgun Lanza used. But Glock lists two types on its website, including the Glock 20 and Glock 29.

Lanza had "multiple magazines" for the Glock, Vance said. Such magazines are widely available.

The Glock 20 model has a 15-round magazine. Glock describes it as an ideal weapon for hunting because of its larger bullets, referred to as the ammunition's caliber.


The Glock 20 measures nearly 8 ¼ inches long and weighs about 2 ½ pounds when loaded, according to Glock's website.

Guns and Ammo magazine said of Glocks: "They point naturally, their triggers aren't too heavy ... but most importantly of all, they're reliable."

Sig Sauer 9 mm handgun

The other handgun police said Lanza had with him during the school massacre was a Sig Sauer. Authorities didn't say what kind, but possibilities include the P226, P229 or P250, P290, and if it was an older pistol, possibly the P220. The 9 mm P220 is no longer sold in the United States

Like the Glock, Lanza's Sig Sauer also allowed a high-capacity magazine, Vance said. Lanza used "multiple magazines" that are widely available to feed ammunition to the Sig Sauer, Vance said. Sig Sauer makes 9 mm pistol magazines with a maximum capacity of 20 bullets.

And like the Glock, Vance said the Sig Sauer handgun was a semiautomatic.

The P226 has a 15-round magazine, measures 7 ¾ inches and costs about $1,142, according to Sig Sauer's website. They can be found cheaper at some gun shops.






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Bullshit... you and I both know handguns will not be banned. Yes, most murders are by handgun. But the mass killings are the subject now. Can't we even agree to do more to protect from mass killings?
You see Max, the "gun nuts" are fearing that if you open the door, there is no turning around... I carried enough assault weapons to last me a life-time and as I said earlier, I could care less, but for a responsible owner/collector, why not?






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What makes me think this? See above - a hundred rounds or so less... 30 at a time as opposed to 10 - basic logic. THAT's why high capacity magazines are sold. That is why the military uses them: high kill numbers per magazine.
No, you aren't using common sense. You are ignoring common sense because you "won't impede the rights of other law abiding citizens who wish to own them". Is it someone's right to own a fully functional A-10? Is it someone's right to own a small thermonuclear warhead? You may say "Come on, Max" but really we are talking about rights versus logical limits.

No one needs an assault weapon. And if we don't ban them we need to do something to keep them out of irresponsible hands.

Dude... how awesome would a "warthog" be! lol Better yet, an Apache!




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We will have to do something. I don't think replacing ALL school windows with bulletproof glass is effective or financially feasible. You never answered the scenario of a sicko like Lanza just waiting outside the school and picking them off DC sniper style. Or following the school bus and blasting away. WAIT - we could also make all the busses rolling fortresses!
Do you realize just the insurance costs for "volunteers"? And these would be halfwits too often... people with nothing better to do... wanting to be the next Dirty Harry. Then we have some more Trevor Martin situations.

Unfortunately, it takes someone experiencing this type of tragedy personally before they consider logical solutions

Access control is the key bro... outside metal detectors and a few volunteer hall monitors would even work... think about the support the schools get a sporting events with the Booster clubs of those sports providing everything from security to food... a practiced, solid plan of action needs to be in place and a police presence patrolling the surrounding area, along with alarms and lockable doors to the classrooms...

On another note, I always thought that airplanes should have access doors to the cockpit from the outside only, not inside with access to the back of the plane... have a stewardess assigned to the cockpit and that should take care of hijackers taking over a plane?
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:33 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by pladecalvo View Post
At least we don't shoot guys that are on the same side as us, unlike you clowns!
No... that would NEVER happen! lol

Fire power

The area around Imber on Salisbury Plain has been used as a training ground by the British military since the early 20th Century.

The tactical air demonstration of fire power in 1942 took place on Imber Downs with a squadron of six Hurricane aircraft.

The pilot of the sixth plane to pass over the area mistook spectators for a row of dummy soldiers placed on the ground and opened fire.

Twenty-five officers were killed and 71 injured.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-17692313





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Things are changing here boy....and not before time. Looks like the whole structure of the working day and fiestas will be changing this year.

There's no 'C' in Siesta ya knob!

I wouldn't know the difference as I never get to take one as I work for a living... unlike you! lol
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:50 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by Francoitalianarmy View Post
No propaganda bro... the reports that day, at least on CBS were that the AR was in the trunk... at least that is what I heard, but I COULD have mis-understood it because the focus in my mind was the suffering and more importantly the terror in the minds of the survivors... especially the little girl that played dead... it literally made me sick thinking if my own kids having to go through that.
OK, but it is fully understood that the AR-15 was used extensively in the shootings.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Francoitalianarmy View Post
Here is the rest of that article... now, do you think the outcome would have been different when it states he had MULTIPLE 15 rd magazines for the handguns with him?
Yep, it would have been different... over 90 rounds from the AR alone.
We can't say, but perhaps he would not even have tried had he not had the AR. But it is a sick mind...








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Originally Posted by Francoitalianarmy View Post
You see Max, the "gun nuts" are fearing that if you open the door, there is no turning around... I carried enough assault weapons to last me a life-time and as I said earlier, I could care less, but for a responsible owner/collector, why not?
But therein lies the problem: Lanza was not a responsible owner/collector.









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Originally Posted by Francoitalianarmy View Post
Dude... how awesome would a "warthog" be! lol Better yet, an Apache!
Yeah, well... lol







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Originally Posted by Francoitalianarmy View Post
Access control is the key bro... outside metal detectors and a few volunteer hall monitors would even work... think about the support the schools get a sporting events with the Booster clubs of those sports providing everything from security to food... a practiced, solid plan of action needs to be in place and a police presence patrolling the surrounding area, along with alarms and lockable doors to the classrooms...
You're playing a whack-a-mole game here trying to plug up a very porous security scenario. We shouldn't have to live in a police state of constant "security". So much for "freedom". Booster clubs won't stop a Lanza.
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:22 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by Francoitalianarmy View Post
Twenty-five officers were killed and 71 injured.
Well they were 'officers' so mistaking them for 'dummies' would be easily done.

...and we'll sure have to go some to beat you dudes!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ritish_victims

If you can find something similar where British soldiers did the same sort of thing...do post it up.

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I wouldn't know the difference as I never get to take one as I work for a living... unlike you! lol
I've done my bit mate! Your turn now!
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Last edited by pladecalvo; 12-30-2012 at 10:33 AM.
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Old 12-30-2012, 11:01 AM   #246
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Well they were 'officers' so mistaking them for 'dummies' would be easily done.

...and we'll sure have to go some to beat you dudes!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ritish_victims

If you can find something similar where British soldiers did the same sort of thing...do post it up.
That is what happens when you stop in the bush to sit and have tea and crumpets!


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I've done my bit mate! Your turn now!
When I was stationed in Europe, the locals start work at 9am, are drunk by noon, sleep until 6pm, work another 2 hours and call it a day... I don't think they could put in an 8 hour day! The only place I seen worse was in Saudi while supporting a Hawk missle unit... those jokers wouldn't show up to work at all and if you asked them, they simply said Allah told them to take the day off...lol
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Last edited by Francoitalianarmy; 12-30-2012 at 11:02 AM.
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Old 12-30-2012, 11:13 AM   #247
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OK, but it is fully understood that the AR-15 was used extensively in the shootings.

Ya... it is understood.


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Yep, it would have been different... over 90 rounds from the AR alone.
We can't say, but perhaps he would not even have tried had he not had the AR. But it is a sick mind...
I understand the Ar was more efficient, but I still believe it would have happened with the same results considering what he was packing.








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But therein lies the problem: Lanza was not a responsible owner/collector.
He was a thief the second he stole the guns, besides the fact he was a murderer... even responsible owners can be robbed and their handguns used in commission of other crimes... and often are.


In any instance, the mother should have had those weapons secured in a safe or with a minimum muzzle/trigger guard. That is being responsible...




Quote:
You're playing a whack-a-mole game here trying to plug up a very porous security scenario. We shouldn't have to live in a police state of constant "security". So much for "freedom". Booster clubs won't stop a Lanza.

So, I believe you have a young daughter... if you were asked (and had the time) to sit and watch an outside metal detector at one of two access points to her school, only armed with an alarm button and walkie talkie, you couldnt perform that simple, but inportant task? Im offering solutions... I haven't heard anything else offered... It would take a brainstorming effort to determine the security for each school taking into account the resources, money and what have you, but it should be done in every district in the country today... they seem to have a grip on getting grief counselors deployed AFTER an event... more effort needs to be put into the preventative measures....
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Old 12-30-2012, 11:55 AM   #248
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So, I believe you have a young daughter... if you were asked (and had the time) to sit and watch an outside metal detector at one of two access points to her school, only armed with an alarm button and walkie talkie, you couldnt perform that simple, but inportant task? Im offering solutions... I haven't heard anything else offered... It would take a brainstorming effort to determine the security for each school taking into account the resources, money and what have you, but it should be done in every district in the country today... they seem to have a grip on getting grief counselors deployed AFTER an event... more effort needs to be put into the preventative measures....
Yes I would do it. However, this is not an effective measure. We have over 67,000 public elementary schools in the US (that is just public and elementary, add in private, preschool, middle school, high school). There is not enough level of alert to make that effective. It becomes a boring and rote job. The real threat is not there at every school, every day. This makes the whole approach ineffective. The metal detectors just guard the main ways in. As you said, Lanza would have found a way regardless. He had no concern for alarms.. he broke his way in. He could have driven his mother's car right thru the front doors. He had no concern for his own life so he had nothing to lose, nothing would have disuaded him... certainly no Barney Fife "guarding" the place.
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Old 12-30-2012, 12:00 PM   #249
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Default This is THE Solution

Solution: Put the Bible, Ten Commandments and Prayer back in schools.

Clearly there's huge difference from the time when the Bible and prayer was permitted...and now that it's Not permitted.

Schools have violence, drugs, suicides, murders and sex problems. The murderer at Sandy Hook, was a product of the systems of violence, drugs, etc., permitted to indoctrinate the weak-minded and young impressionable minds. and now, instead of kids going to the nurse for a sprained ankle from PE, or a headache....they're going to the nurse for condoms.

Instead of permitting the Bible in schools...the schools/government have permitted ALL other/false faiths, cults, perversions, and special interest groups to indoctrinate your school aged children. What they put into them...that's what you get out of them.

There is NO tolerance for GOD. So, why blame HIM? People/schools/government get what they chose ...and even the innocent suffer from their choices. The people running the government and schools have failed. Time for renewal and restoration.


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Old 12-30-2012, 12:10 PM   #250
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Yes I would do it. However, this is not an effective measure. We have over 67,000 public elementary schools in the US (that is just public and elementary, add in private, preschool, middle school, high school). There is not enough level of alert to make that effective. It becomes a boring and rote job. The real threat is not there at every school, every day. This makes the whole approach ineffective. The metal detectors just guard the main ways in. As you said, Lanza would have found a way regardless. He had no concern for alarms.. he broke his way in. He could have driven his mother's car right thru the front doors. He had no concern for his own life so he had nothing to lose, nothing would have disuaded him... certainly no Barney Fife "guarding" the place.
The point of this is that discussions should be taking place to get an effective plan in place that is practiced. This means educating parents to safeguard their own weapons and passing out trigger locks (the local sherrifs offer them free in our county) this means educating parents to look for warning signs and having them actively engaged in their duties... no matter HOW boring it can get.

Doing nothing will produce the same resuluts and actually what I believe will happen is that cyber schools will bolster their rosters wreaking havoc on the local schools in terms of funding.

The money to fortify schools can be funded by the Fed Gov't... make cuts in the BILLIONS of foreign aid we hand out instead of investing in our security.
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