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Old 01-10-2013, 04:44 AM   #21
DonH
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There was an attempt to reign in spending as recently as about a week ago. That attempt failed miserably. Ergo the upcoming "DEBT CEILING" should rightly be utilized act as a tool to force fiscal responsibility as it has always been intended.

Anyone with even a minute modicum of cognitive skill knows that you will never borrow or spend your way out of debt. There comes a point where the amount being borrowed exceeds the debtor's capability to repay that debt. This country is either at or has already passed that point. To keep borrowing without drastically reducing the spending is nothing short of illogical.



I predict that the Debt Ceiling negotiations will not produce spending cuts in a significant way. I also predict that the administration will not be willing even make any serious concessions or attempt to reduce spending at all. It appears to me that any amount of debt is acceptable to them and will continue to be acceptable as long as we accept excessive and/or wasteful spending to be referred to as investments.

Here’s another way to look at the debt ceiling.

If you come home from work and you find that there has been a sewer back-up in your neighborhood and your home has sewage all the way up to the ceilings. What should you do… raise the ceilings or remove the shit?


.
The only reason why this isnt an absolute crisis today is because the interest rate is so low. Once the rate achieves historical norms, as we all now it eventually will, interest on our foolish borrowing will bury us. The stage has already been set. Our politicians are a lot like junkies. They know what needs to be done but they just resist their next fix. Shame on them for putting their pork in the Sandy relief bill and then putting their sorry mugs all over the media when responsible individuals wanted to pause to delve into the detail before signing the blank check.

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Old 01-10-2013, 08:08 AM   #22
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Defense of the state against who, if not an overzealous federal government?
Outside attack, dumbass. Remember the War of 1812? There was also the great frontier to the west. The "state" is our government.

What you and many others seems to be promoting is the notion of civil war... how nice. While the framers were wary of oppressive government they had designed a government with ways to address any grievance to AVOID such pointless insurrection. The notion of the 2nd as a means to fight against your own government was a safety valve catch all, the "safe room" you never hope to use. None of the framers were promoting the idea of destroying the government they had so carefully designed.
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:09 AM   #23
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Every court seems to take a slightly different slant on it. It's easy to see why when one reads the 2nd Amendment - it is certainly open to interpretation.
No shit sherlock... that's exactly what I've been saying all along. That's what Franco and I have been discussing - pay attention.
The debate is: some people want action, and some people want no action. It's all about striking the right balance, because there is no easy answer, and there is no magic fix.

LOL... the conspiracy theory nut is telling me to "wake up". Classic...

I don't consider myself an expert. But I have studied... that does make me a scholar. Even a myopic right wing conspiracy theory nut is a "scholar" if they truly study it. It's a moot point anyway. I do know about the history of how the 2nd Amendment came to be, and the mindset behind it. You have already displayed your ignorance of it by suggesting that any move in controlling access to certain types of weaponry is "violating" the 2nd Amendment. Then go contradict yourself by admitting it's about "definitions' and where the line is drawn.
If you blow open the doors completely on the 2nd Amendment you have people with grenade launchers, SAMs, heck even thermonuclear weapons.
That's what a lot of nuts blinded by ideology don't see: there is a practical limit that society establishes.
From one conspiracy theory nonsense to another... you're consistent.
"Revisionism" comes in many flavors. Public sentiment say that Citizens United was revisionism. The public does "unknowingly" buy into nonsense, as evidenced by the conspiracy nuts. These nuts are fed by the likes of Fox News, Alex Jones, Glenn Beck on the right... Mike Malloy, MoveOn on the left.
You never fail to disappoint me with your own delusional superiority.
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:39 AM   #24
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Obviously it is your opinion that only a few superior individuals have that capability but that couldn't be farther from the truth.
Well you "obviously" have your head in the sand or trying to live up to your handle. No, that's not my opinion, dumbass. It is my opinion that some people just take what select talking heads are feeding them.
You baffle me the most because I had figured long ago that you were a smart guy... but you keep buying every little morsel of bullshit that comes your way.

The prime example is right in this discussion: the Debt Ceiling has nothing to do with authorizing spending and tax levels. The Ceiling is after the fact - it simply authorizes the Federal Gov't to pay it's outstanding bills. It's like the check after a meal out. You have already ordered (spending) and you already have a certain amount of cash (revenues). The debt ceiling is just the credit card portion agreed on to pay the outstanding bill ALREADY INCURRED. And the end scenario is the same: pay it, wash dishes, or go to jail for dining-and-dashing.



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Exactly!! Please name the spending cuts along with the associated dollar amount of those cuts that that offset the tax increases achieved during the Fiscal Cliff Negotiations.

To give a comparison that even you might be able to understand, the DEBT CEILING is the mechanism that is intended to do just what it's name implies, It places a limit on the debt. That's so simple that even you should be able to understand that.
Let's put it another way, FormerRepub and a few other have tried, but you still don't get it. Congressional action on this is bipolar: They authorize tax and spend levels as authorized in Article 1, Section 8. With that authority they have control to avoid any conflict with a debt ceiling.
From Dept of Treasury:
The debt limit is the total amount of money that the United States government is authorized to borrow to meet its existing legal obligations, including Social Security and Medicare benefits, military salaries, interest on the national debt, tax refunds, and other payments. The debt limit does not authorize new spending commitments. It simply allows the government to finance existing legal obligations that Congresses and presidents of both parties have made in the past.

Failing to increase the debt limit would have catastrophic economic consequences. It would cause the government to default on its legal obligations – an unprecedented event in American history. That would precipitate another financial crisis and threaten the jobs and savings of everyday Americans – putting the United States right back in a deep economic hole, just as the country is recovering from the recent recession.

Congress has always acted when called upon to raise the debt limit. Since 1960, Congress has acted 78 separate times to permanently raise, temporarily extend, or revise the definition of the debt limit – 49 times under Republican presidents and 29 times under Democratic presidents. In the coming weeks, Congress must act to increase the debt limit. Congressional leaders in both parties have recognized that this is necessary. Recently, however, a number of myths about this issue have begun to surface.


(yeah, no shit)

Try this too for a little insight:
http://www.treasury.gov/initiatives/...ct%20FINAL.pdf

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Originally Posted by dumbass View Post
There was an attempt to reign in spending as recently as about a week ago. That attempt failed miserably. Ergo the upcoming "DEBT CEILING" should rightly be utilized act as a tool to force fiscal responsibility as it has always been intended.
But since 1960 the Debt Ceiling has never been used as a gun against the head of the American economy like it is now. This is the bipolar action of Congress - set yourself up for a hostage crisis situation on circumstances of your own making.

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Originally Posted by dumbass View Post
Anyone with even a minute modicum of cognitive skill knows that you will never borrow or spend your way out of debt. There comes a point where the amount being borrowed exceeds the debtor's capability to repay that debt. This country is either at or has already passed that point. To keep borrowing without drastically reducing the spending is nothing short of illogical.
Again, no shit?!
But it's not JUST reducing spending, it's increasing revenues too.

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Congress had an opportunity to make a significant reduction in spending last week but didn't hang tough only due to the possible harm the ramifications of going over the "FISCAL CLIFF" might have presented. They have another opportunity within the next 2 months. The House should require that there be actual reductions in spending as opposed to only reducing the amount of increase in spending as this administration has demonstrated to be their preference.
The House Republicans are out of step with the wishes of the American people. The majority of Americans want spending cuts and revenue increases. The House Republicans are digging in their heels against the wishes of the public

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As was so succinctly said in the Joke Thread, (thanks to Frankoitalionarmy) It is well worth repeating.

Lesson #2

Here’s another way to look at the debt ceiling.

If you come home from work and you find that there has been a sewer back-up in your neighborhood and your home has sewage all the way up to the ceilings. What should you do… raise the ceilings or remove the shit?
Funny, but this highlights your misunderstanding of the debt ceiling. You can't "remove the shit". The "shit" is that restaurant bill for the feast you just gobbled down. "Removing the shit" is the equivalent of running out on your bill.



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Originally Posted by dumbass View Post
You can roll your eyes if it gives you a false sense of superiority but do you have a better explanation that would justify continuing to spend way the hell more than is taken in. I can find no justification for that intentional disregard for fiscal responsibility so for my edification, please tell me what else could it be.
Even a dumbass should know that the "rolling eyes" is a sign of "I can't believe this shit". Your wild ass ideas and hyper partisan take on things should evoke the same response from anyone not of the ultra-right persuasion.
Where was your outrage when the Bush Tax cuts were passed? John McCain, at the time, had it right: "Never have we lowered taxes in a time of war". Where was your outrage when we had 2 wars not "on the books"? Where is your outrage that we give useless tax credits for the oil industry (in fact you DEFEND those cuts and quibble about the use of the term "subsidy"). If you're going to be outraged at least show some consistency.
Fact is, both the Democrats and the Republicans have their pet interests that get targeted for Federal spending. Simpson-Bowles has a framework for moving that discussion forward and getting our fiscal house in order.
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:50 AM   #25
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You never fail to disappoint me with your own delusional superiority.
I have no self image of superiority... it just seems that way to you when placed next to your self-loathing inferiority complex.

It's all perspective.

Funny how when you can't answer, you "attack" like you complained about in an earlier post! LOL

"You never fail to disappoint me with your" hypocrisy and inferiority complex self-loathing, and running away from a logical answer when you don't have one.
You're consistent there, I'll give you that!
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:54 AM   #26
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This will lead to complete power being vested solely in the Administration by eliminating the checks and balances intended by the framers of the Constitution. If this is implemented they can totally eliminate the powers given to the legislative branch. Now I know why they wanted to extend unemployment. There could be 535 new applicants attributable to down-sizing. This is bullshit on steroids!!

http://news.yahoo.com/trillion-dolla...-politics.html

Rather than correct our problems they are investing time and resources into finding ways to get around the system.
The American Citizens must put a stop to this.

Government is of the people, for the people and by the people. Not the other way around!!!
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Old 01-11-2013, 12:12 PM   #27
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I have no self image of superiority... it just seems that way to you when placed next to your self-loathing inferiority complex.

It's all perspective.

Funny how when you can't answer, you "attack" like you complained about in an earlier post! LOL

"You never fail to disappoint me with your" hypocrisy and inferiority complex self-loathing, and running away from a logical answer when you don't have one.
You're consistent there, I'll give you that!

You are always so off base and so off target I'm wondering how you ever became a "rocket scientist."
Maybe too many hockey pucks have hit you in the head? Next time don't block with your head.

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Old 01-11-2013, 02:13 PM   #28
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You are always so off base and so off target I'm wondering how you ever became a "rocket scientist."
Maybe too many hockey pucks have hit you in the head? Next time don't block with your head.
LOL. We all know the real reason most of your post are just weak attempts at personal attacks and rarely on the subject. You're not fooling anybody.
I'm dead on target and it frost you so much that you spend a lot of energy just venting your frustration.
It's really transparent what you are doing. This advice pertains to you too: When you are in a hole, stop digging.
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Old 01-11-2013, 02:29 PM   #29
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LOL. We all know the real reason most of your post are just weak attempts at personal attacks and rarely on the subject. You're not fooling anybody.
I'm dead on target and it frost you so much that you spend a lot of energy just venting your frustration.
It's really transparent what you are doing. This advice pertains to you too: When you are in a hole, stop digging.

You really have to think you right. Well, you are not and you haven't made any great discoveries. But if it makes you feel secure in your world; you go ahead and believe your own fantasies. Just remember what I said; don't block any more pucks with your head. But if you do ...thanks.
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Old 01-11-2013, 02:46 PM   #30
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You really have to think you right. Well, you are not and you haven't made any great discoveries. But if it makes you feel secure in your world; you go ahead and believe your own fantasies. Just remember what I said; don't block any more pucks with your head. But if you do ...thanks.
What a wanker you are! And an unobservant one at that.
It's not about being "right". It's about discussing issues intelligently.
And if you feel you must prove that I am wrong, you may have more credibility if you actually stuck to the subject instead of crying, whining, and lashing out.
Like I said, most on here see thru your bullshit... I just find it entertaining how you squirm, bitch, and moan. There is another southern saying: Bit dog always hollers.

Now, lets see if you can drop the crybaby bit for a few posts and actually attempt some contribution in content. I know that's asking a lot, but give it a try.
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