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Old 01-15-2013, 07:24 PM   #11
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Thanks Rick and welcome to the forum. You had us a little concerned with your initial rant. For some of us this is a therapeutic place to vent our anger and disgust.

I work in mental health and have a mixed background involving military service, law enforcement, and rehabilitation. I see people quite frequently who have committed murders and who are a threat to society. The system is grossly inadequate and fails to follow-up or monitor them. Many schizophrenics are stabilized via a hospital stay and then are discharged back into the community. At some point this person "de-compensates" and stops taking their medication. After this occurs for a given period of time the person becomes psychotic which can result in a range of issues......paranoia, hearing voices, etc...... The person is then scooped up again and put back in the hospital for stabilization.

This is a continuing cycle and occasionally someone gets hurt or killed in the process. So what we have here are people on the streets who've done their 15 years for knocking grannies brains out with a hammer and people who are psychotic and capable of God knows what. So what the hell are we to do? Take away guns seems to be the simple answer for the simple minded. I agree that stronger sentencing needs to happen. Thirty years ago we didn't let these people out of prison, we threw away the key or executed them. They way we do things now equates to catching cock roaches in a trap, relocating them for a bit, and then releasing them in hopes that they have turned into something else
I agree 100% Steve. Mental health services are severely underserved in the US. Your description is spot-on with what happens when someone experiences a mental episode. The root cause to our lunatic violence issues is mental health status.
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:16 PM   #12
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I agree 100% Steve. Mental health services are severely underserved in the US. Your description is spot-on with what happens when someone experiences a mental episode. The root cause to our lunatic violence issues is mental health status.
How ya doin GS? Nice to hear from you. I got a little windy on that post and I left another crucial piece of the pie out. That being that some of the mentally ill self medicate with narcotics. This is more often than not a formula for disaster. Quite often practitioners label these folks as drug addicts and refuse to deal with their mental illness. Many of these folks honestly believe that marijuana and other street drugs help their illness. A study done in the Netherlands a few years back found that this is completely untrue and in fact these folks regressed to a point that the study was discontinued for ethical reasons.
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:47 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Stevomeo View Post
Thanks Rick and welcome to the forum. You had us a little concerned with your initial rant. For some of us this is a therapeutic place to vent our anger and disgust.

I work in mental health and have a mixed background involving military service, law enforcement, and rehabilitation. I see people quite frequently who have committed murders and who are a threat to society. The system is grossly inadequate and fails to follow-up or monitor them. Many schizophrenics are stabilized via a hospital stay and then are discharged back into the community. At some point this person "de-compensates" and stops taking their medication. After this occurs for a given period of time the person becomes psychotic which can result in a range of issues......paranoia, hearing voices, etc...... The person is then scooped up again and put back in the hospital for stabilization.

This is a continuing cycle and occasionally someone gets hurt or killed in the process. So what we have here are people on the streets who've done their 15 years for knocking grannies brains out with a hammer and people who are psychotic and capable of God knows what. So what the hell are we to do? Take away guns seems to be the simple answer for the simple minded. I agree that stronger sentencing needs to happen. Thirty years ago we didn't let these people out of prison, we threw away the key or executed them. They way we do things now equates to catching cock roaches in a trap, relocating them for a bit, and then releasing them in hopes that they have turned into something else
Like GradStudnt wrote; these are keen observations Stevomeo. Especially this one: "For some of us this is a therapeutic place to vent our anger and disgust." We sure see a lot of that on these boards!

There was a study about 6 years ago that was summarized as below from an NAMI article:
http://www.nami.org/Template.cfm?Sec...ontentID=38174

The release today of a study by the U.S. Department of Justice’s Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) showing than 64 percent of local jail inmates, 56 percent of state prisoners and 45 percent of federal prisoners have symptoms of serious mental illnesses is an indictment of the nation’s mental healthcare system.
It is both a scandal and a national tragedy. The figures are worse than those generally believed in the past, in which estimates of the total number of inmates with mental illnesses have been approximately 20 percent.
The study reveals that the problem is two to three times greater than anyone imagined.
(Below is the link to the full paper in .pdf format)
(from: http://www.nami.org/Template.cfm?Sec...ontentID=38175)

It does make for some interesting reading. I too found an interesting correlation along with this to the overall literacy rate among prison inmates and the general populace. Even the writer John Grisham alluded to the low literacy rate and recidivism among inmates in his new book, "The Racketeer". He used the opportunity to take a shot at the educational system in the country. It was a pretty good shot too.
A guy named Kenneth Mentor, J.D., PhD., published a paper called Literacy in Corrections that stated it very succinctly: (below is a quote from the paper) -

Illiteracy is perhaps the greatest common denominator in correctional facilities. Data collected from the National Adult Literacy Survey (NALS) show that literacy levels among inmates is considerably lower than for the general population. For example, of the 5 levels measured by the NALS, 70% of inmates scored at the lowest two levels of literacy (below 4th grade). Other research s***ests that 75% of inmates are illiterate (at the 12th grade level) and 19% are completely illiterate. Forty percent are functionally illiterate. In real world terms, this means that the individual would be unable to write a letter explaining a billing error. In comparison, the national illiteracy rate for adult Americans stands at 4%, with 21% functionally illiterate. from: http://kenmentor.com/papers/literacy.htm

So, when you put all of these things together you can see that we, as a country, have brewed quite a stew of problems. What do we tackle first; Education or Mental Health, or Education and Mental Health in prisons? I believe they are all connected. So trying to place the blame for the tragedies that are on all our minds on the false notion that the cause is “the lack of gun control” is not the answer or the problem; but just a scapegoat being used by our poser of a President. What a mess!

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Old 01-16-2013, 09:10 AM   #14
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I have a few opinions on the subject.

I find it a bit more than ironic that those calling for drug legalization, saying the war on drugs has been ineffective, are the same ones calling for gun control, as if it would do any good.


30+ children getting slaughtered is a tragedy, but is it really worth infringing on the rights of hundreds of millions of Americans to prevent those 30 deaths. If so, what other rights should we infringe to save even more lives? 25 MPH national speed limit for driving a car? That would likely save 30,000 lives per year.

If we are willing to infringe on the rights of people in hopes of preventing 30 deaths, why not infringe on the rights of people to save 30,000 lives?


Oh, but it is not those 30 deaths. There are 30K gun deaths every year in the USA. Those in favor of gun control may use that statistic as justification.

Well, more than half those are from suicide. Since only half of suicides involve guns, it is safe to assume that most, if not all, people commiting suicide by gun would find another way to kill themselves.

So, we're down to 13K deaths.

Less than 1000 are accidental... compared to cars that accidentally kill 30K.

This leaves 12K murders by gun. However, most of those murders are not people taking assault rifles into elementary schools. The VAST majority of gun murders involve gang violence as street gangs battle for control of drug distribution regions and other crime syndication.

We launched the war on drugs in the 1980s, and the result was increasing the number of handgun deaths from 8K a year to 14k a year. To counter this increase in violence, we created the 3-strikes laws, putting these violent street gang thung in jail for life... making us the world's largest prison nation... and bringing the number of gun deaths back down toward pre-war-on-drugs levels.

How much money could we save, violence could we reduce, and lives could we save, if we simply ended the war on drugs. Perhaps the money currenlty being spent keeping drug dealers and users in jail could instead be spent on mental health and drug detox.

However, even with 3-strickes laws, we still see 12K gun murders a year... 11K of those are handgun.

So, why are we pushing assault rifle ban when all long guns account for less than 10% of all gun murders, and assault weapons less than 6% of all murders?



On the flip side, the Constitution protects the right to own weapons. However, the courts have repeatedly ruled that does not mean all weapons. You can not, for example, own explosives, flame throwers, or other "area of effect" weapons.

I don't see the right to own high capacity magizines, in the Constitution.



Finally, let's say a crazy person decides to kill himself and take out as many other people as he can in the process. Now let's say that coocoo for coco puffs person can't get an assault rifle with a large clip. Oh, guess he can't kill a lot of people. OR, does he just get a car and drive through a school zone at teh end fo the day, running down every child he can get his car within range of.



Perhaps the real solution is to outlaw being crazy, because we all know that making somethign illegal prevents people from doing it.

Oh, oh... how about we just make it illegal to kill other people with guns.

Those laws will likely be as effective at reducing murder as, say, a ban on the sale of assault weapons or high capacity magazines.


Oh course, I don't think anyone really expects the ban proposal to really go anywhere. After Newtown, the Dems HAVE to propose a new ban.

Political theater at its finest.
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Old 01-16-2013, 10:10 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by FormerRepub View Post
I have a few opinions on the subject.
I find it a bit more than ironic that those calling for drug legalization, saying the war on drugs has been ineffective, are the same ones calling for gun control, as if it would do any good.
30+ children getting slaughtered is a tragedy, but is it really worth infringing on the rights of hundreds of millions of Americans to prevent those 30 deaths. If so, what other rights should we infringe to save even more lives? 25 MPH national speed limit for driving a car? That would likely save 30,000 lives per year.
If we are willing to infringe on the rights of people in hopes of preventing 30 deaths, why not infringe on the rights of people to save 30,000 lives?
Oh, but it is not those 30 deaths. There are 30K gun deaths every year in the USA. Those in favor of gun control may use that statistic as justification.
Well, more than half those are from suicide. Since only half of suicides involve guns, it is safe to assume that most, if not all, people commiting suicide by gun would find another way to kill themselves.
So, we're down to 13K deaths.
Less than 1000 are accidental... compared to cars that accidentally kill 30K.
This leaves 12K murders by gun. However, most of those murders are not people taking assault rifles into elementary schools. The VAST majority of gun murders involve gang violence as street gangs battle for control of drug distribution regions and other crime syndication.
We launched the war on drugs in the 1980s, and the result was increasing the number of handgun deaths from 8K a year to 14k a year. To counter this increase in violence, we created the 3-strikes laws, putting these violent street gang thung in jail for life... making us the world's largest prison nation... and bringing the number of gun deaths back down toward pre-war-on-drugs levels.
How much money could we save, violence could we reduce, and lives could we save, if we simply ended the war on drugs. Perhaps the money currenlty being spent keeping drug dealers and users in jail could instead be spent on mental health and drug detox.
However, even with 3-strickes laws, we still see 12K gun murders a year... 11K of those are handgun.
So, why are we pushing assault rifle ban when all long guns account for less than 10% of all gun murders, and assault weapons less than 6% of all murders?
On the flip side, the Constitution protects the right to own weapons. However, the courts have repeatedly ruled that does not mean all weapons. You can not, for example, own explosives, flame throwers, or other "area of effect" weapons.
I don't see the right to own high capacity magizines, in the Constitution.
Finally, let's say a crazy person decides to kill himself and take out as many other people as he can in the process. Now let's say that coocoo for coco puffs person can't get an assault rifle with a large clip. Oh, guess he can't kill a lot of people. OR, does he just get a car and drive through a school zone at teh end fo the day, running down every child he can get his car within range of.
Perhaps the real solution is to outlaw being crazy, because we all know that making somethign illegal prevents people from doing it.
Oh, oh... how about we just make it illegal to kill other people with guns.
Those laws will likely be as effective at reducing murder as, say, a ban on the sale of assault weapons or high capacity magazines.
Oh course, I don't think anyone really expects the ban proposal to relly go anywhere. After Newtown, the Dems HAVE to propose a new ban.

Political theater at its finest.
I've been reading your posts for awhile and while they have been good; this one is great.
I would like to add, if I may, "Political Theater at its finest" by people that already have an agenda that is contrary to the US Constitution.
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:05 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by hrdguera View Post
Like GradStudnt wrote; these are keen observations Stevomeo. Especially this one: "For some of us this is a therapeutic place to vent our anger and disgust." We sure see a lot of that on these boards!

There was a study about 6 years ago that was summarized as below from an NAMI article:
http://www.nami.org/Template.cfm?Sec...ontentID=38174

The release today of a study by the U.S. Department of Justice’s Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) showing than 64 percent of local jail inmates, 56 percent of state prisoners and 45 percent of federal prisoners have symptoms of serious mental illnesses is an indictment of the nation’s mental healthcare system.
It is both a scandal and a national tragedy. The figures are worse than those generally believed in the past, in which estimates of the total number of inmates with mental illnesses have been approximately 20 percent.
The study reveals that the problem is two to three times greater than anyone imagined.
(Below is the link to the full paper in .pdf format)
(from: http://www.nami.org/Template.cfm?Sec...ontentID=38175)

It does make for some interesting reading. I too found an interesting correlation along with this to the overall literacy rate among prison inmates and the general populace. Even the writer John Grisham alluded to the low literacy rate and recidivism among inmates in his new book, "The Racketeer". He used the opportunity to take a shot at the educational system in the country. It was a pretty good shot too.
A guy named Kenneth Mentor, J.D., PhD., published a paper called Literacy in Corrections that stated it very succinctly: (below is a quote from the paper) -

Illiteracy is perhaps the greatest common denominator in correctional facilities. Data collected from the National Adult Literacy Survey (NALS) show that literacy levels among inmates is considerably lower than for the general population. For example, of the 5 levels measured by the NALS, 70% of inmates scored at the lowest two levels of literacy (below 4th grade). Other research s***ests that 75% of inmates are illiterate (at the 12th grade level) and 19% are completely illiterate. Forty percent are functionally illiterate. In real world terms, this means that the individual would be unable to write a letter explaining a billing error. In comparison, the national illiteracy rate for adult Americans stands at 4%, with 21% functionally illiterate. from: http://kenmentor.com/papers/literacy.htm

So, when you put all of these things together you can see that we, as a country, have brewed quite a stew of problems. What do we tackle first; Education or Mental Health, or Education and Mental Health in prisons? I believe they are all connected. So trying to place the blame for the tragedies that are on all our minds on the false notion that the cause is “the lack of gun control” is not the answer or the problem; but just a scapegoat being used by our poser of a President. What a mess!

Great post H. Here's another element I believe I have overlooked. There are many mentally ill people out there who go to work, pay taxes, and never break the law or would even consider harming another human being.

Where the system has failed, and that includes the justice system, is that we make excuses for those who do break the law. Judges refuse to hear many cases because the perpetrator is mentally ill. That's bullshit!!! The law is suppose to be applied consistently and no one is suppose to be above the law. I know a case where an individual stabbed his dog over 30 times and the police refused to charge him. He was processed through the mental health system and was eventually released back into society. If there is no punishment component within the justice system it fails to deliver justice. When we return to a country and society of responsibility and accountability then perhaps common sense will then be applied.
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:11 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by FormerRepub View Post
I have a few opinions on the subject.

I find it a bit more than ironic that those calling for drug legalization, saying the war on drugs has been ineffective, are the same ones calling for gun control, as if it would do any good.


30+ children getting slaughtered is a tragedy, but is it really worth infringing on the rights of hundreds of millions of Americans to prevent those 30 deaths. If so, what other rights should we infringe to save even more lives? 25 MPH national speed limit for driving a car? That would likely save 30,000 lives per year.

If we are willing to infringe on the rights of people in hopes of preventing 30 deaths, why not infringe on the rights of people to save 30,000 lives?


Oh, but it is not those 30 deaths. There are 30K gun deaths every year in the USA. Those in favor of gun control may use that statistic as justification.

Well, more than half those are from suicide. Since only half of suicides involve guns, it is safe to assume that most, if not all, people commiting suicide by gun would find another way to kill themselves.

So, we're down to 13K deaths.

Less than 1000 are accidental... compared to cars that accidentally kill 30K.

This leaves 12K murders by gun. However, most of those murders are not people taking assault rifles into elementary schools. The VAST majority of gun murders involve gang violence as street gangs battle for control of drug distribution regions and other crime syndication.

We launched the war on drugs in the 1980s, and the result was increasing the number of handgun deaths from 8K a year to 14k a year. To counter this increase in violence, we created the 3-strikes laws, putting these violent street gang thung in jail for life... making us the world's largest prison nation... and bringing the number of gun deaths back down toward pre-war-on-drugs levels.

How much money could we save, violence could we reduce, and lives could we save, if we simply ended the war on drugs. Perhaps the money currenlty being spent keeping drug dealers and users in jail could instead be spent on mental health and drug detox.

However, even with 3-strickes laws, we still see 12K gun murders a year... 11K of those are handgun.

So, why are we pushing assault rifle ban when all long guns account for less than 10% of all gun murders, and assault weapons less than 6% of all murders?



On the flip side, the Constitution protects the right to own weapons. However, the courts have repeatedly ruled that does not mean all weapons. You can not, for example, own explosives, flame throwers, or other "area of effect" weapons.

I don't see the right to own high capacity magizines, in the Constitution.



Finally, let's say a crazy person decides to kill himself and take out as many other people as he can in the process. Now let's say that coocoo for coco puffs person can't get an assault rifle with a large clip. Oh, guess he can't kill a lot of people. OR, does he just get a car and drive through a school zone at teh end fo the day, running down every child he can get his car within range of.



Perhaps the real solution is to outlaw being crazy, because we all know that making somethign illegal prevents people from doing it.

Oh, oh... how about we just make it illegal to kill other people with guns.

Those laws will likely be as effective at reducing murder as, say, a ban on the sale of assault weapons or high capacity magazines.


Oh course, I don't think anyone really expects the ban proposal to really go anywhere. After Newtown, the Dems HAVE to propose a new ban.

Political theater at its finest.

Agreed. There's an interesting history of leaders who use children in the political theater. I thought Mr Obama would distance himself from this non-sense but it seems he embraces, in this case, a tactic used effectively by Hitler.
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"Don't expect to build up the weak by pulling down the strong." - Calvin Coolidge

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Old 01-17-2013, 12:17 AM   #18
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So, when you put all of these things together you can see that we, as a country, have brewed quite a stew of problems. What do we tackle first; Education or Mental Health, or Education and Mental Health in prisons? I believe they are all connected. So trying to place the blame for the tragedies that are on all our minds on the false notion that the cause is “the lack of gun control” is not the answer or the problem; but just a scapegoat being used by our poser of a President. What a mess![/quote]

Education would be the easiest to tackle. We needed harsher penalties. For example, make it where you could not be released from prison unless you can take care of yourself. Learn a skill, complete High School. Allow them to take out student loans to attend college. If they refuse to pay them back..put them back in prison. Change the due process when a scum bag commits a crime. For example, we had the big serial killer Anthony Sowell a couple of years ago. They found 11 rotting bodies in his house and buried on his property. He then pleads not guilty and consumes thousands of dollars of taxpayer money for a court appointed attorney and trial.

If we are incarcerating people 10 years or more...we have plenty of time to teach them to read or fix their heads.

As far as I can observe....where is the gun control? I posted an article in another thread where a kid shot a young woman, her Uncle and a 12 year old girl. He purchased a semi automatic pistol a few hours before he killed this family. The gun shop made a statement that he passed his screening. This should have taken 3 days to thoroughly obtain a background check, not in such a short period of time that he walked out with the weapon. Gun control is the easiest path to stop the growing problem we are experiencing as Americans. Harsh penalites if gun laws are broken. For example, 10 years without parole if caught with a illegal gun, unregistered and if a crime is committed such as murder automatic death penalty. Assault weapons...we really should ban them. They do not serve any purpose at all...you can't really use them to hunt..I would imagine. They are military weapons used to fight wars....not for the average Joe. The fact that these guns are flying of the shelves in Gun shops terrifies me. Most of these people have no idea how to use one of these guns. This surge in gun sales only means we are arming more lunatics. If it is true...and it only takes 15 minutes to be approved for a gun and they are only looking for felonies is disturbing on many levels. So no...as far as I can see...we do not have gun laws that are effective.

Also another argument that I have observed in our discussions...the use of a gun to protect yourself. I am assuming here, that most of us have never shot another human being before...unless you are trained military or law enforcement this would be a first time for most. I will go as far to state that maybe 65 percent of the US population has not even shot an animal before..excluding the hunters of course. From what I have read about all of these shootings of late...you would be lucky to be able to fire back. Imagine someone barging into your office one day and unloads a 30 round clip in less than 5 minutes? Imagine the shock, the stress, and adrenaline you would feel. Do you think you could function with all that going on? You can't really answer that because you truly don't know...I am sure it would be a first for you. Another argument...seems to be that anything could be used as a lethal weapons, such as a knife. With a knife, you have a slim chance at defense or being protected...not so much trying to dodge a bullet. If the Sandy Hook Adam Lanza would have charged the school with a sword....you can bet he would have been took down by several of the male teachers...this I have seen. (minus the sword) His weapon of choice...no one had a chance even if they were armed. In a lock down situation..the kids are first and protecting them is main concern...time is spent taking them out of harms way, not locking and loading as the kids look on while the shooter continues to unload his clip. It just does'nt appear that a person has enough reaction time to respond to a crisis of this magnitude. I would bet that some of our posters who are retired military knows exactly what this would feel like.

So...my point is...you as well as the other gun supportors should be very open minded when it comes to gun laws because if this continues...I would predict a all weapon ban. We may not be here to see it...but this surge of gun violence cannot continue. I predict we will see a Anti Gun group become as powerful as the NRA...and Americans may demand that we ban guns. I would hate to see this happen...I feel everyone should be able to do what they want as long as it doesnt affect the common good. We can't do just nothing but argue and blame Obama...there has to be some action to stop these violent crimes. Keep in mind...gun sales have been at a historical high and we do live in a society where one wants to go out in a blaze of drama.....remembered for something horrible. While both parties continue to fight about what to do...we can just sit back and wait for the next horrific event...passively.
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:13 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by GradStdnt View Post
So, when you put all of these things together you can see that we, as a country, have brewed quite a stew of problems. What do we tackle first; Education or Mental Health, or Education and Mental Health in prisons? I believe they are all connected. So trying to place the blame for the tragedies that are on all our minds on the false notion that the cause is “the lack of gun control” is not the answer or the problem; but just a scapegoat being used by our poser of a President. What a mess!

Education would be the easiest to tackle. We needed harsher penalties. For example, make it where you could not be released from prison unless you can take care of yourself. Learn a skill, complete High School. Allow them to take out student loans to attend college. If they refuse to pay them back..put them back in prison. Change the due process when a scum bag commits a crime. For example, we had the big serial killer Anthony Sowell a couple of years ago. They found 11 rotting bodies in his house and buried on his property. He then pleads not guilty and consumes thousands of dollars of taxpayer money for a court appointed attorney and trial.

If we are incarcerating people 10 years or more...we have plenty of time to teach them to read or fix their heads.

As far as I can observe....where is the gun control? I posted an article in another thread where a kid shot a young woman, her Uncle and a 12 year old girl. He purchased a semi automatic pistol a few hours before he killed this family. The gun shop made a statement that he passed his screening. This should have taken 3 days to thoroughly obtain a background check, not in such a short period of time that he walked out with the weapon. Gun control is the easiest path to stop the growing problem we are experiencing as Americans. Harsh penalites if gun laws are broken. For example, 10 years without parole if caught with a illegal gun, unregistered and if a crime is committed such as murder automatic death penalty. Assault weapons...we really should ban them. They do not serve any purpose at all...you can't really use them to hunt..I would imagine. They are military weapons used to fight wars....not for the average Joe. The fact that these guns are flying of the shelves in Gun shops terrifies me. Most of these people have no idea how to use one of these guns. This surge in gun sales only means we are arming more lunatics. If it is true...and it only takes 15 minutes to be approved for a gun and they are only looking for felonies is disturbing on many levels. So no...as far as I can see...we do not have gun laws that are effective.

Also another argument that I have observed in our discussions...the use of a gun to protect yourself. I am assuming here, that most of us have never shot another human being before...unless you are trained military or law enforcement this would be a first time for most. I will go as far to state that maybe 65 percent of the US population has not even shot an animal before..excluding the hunters of course. From what I have read about all of these shootings of late...you would be lucky to be able to fire back. Imagine someone barging into your office one day and unloads a 30 round clip in less than 5 minutes? Imagine the shock, the stress, and adrenaline you would feel. Do you think you could function with all that going on? You can't really answer that because you truly don't know...I am sure it would be a first for you. Another argument...seems to be that anything could be used as a lethal weapons, such as a knife. With a knife, you have a slim chance at defense or being protected...not so much trying to dodge a bullet. If the Sandy Hook Adam Lanza would have charged the school with a sword....you can bet he would have been took down by several of the male teachers...this I have seen. (minus the sword) His weapon of choice...no one had a chance even if they were armed. In a lock down situation..the kids are first and protecting them is main concern...time is spent taking them out of harms way, not locking and loading as the kids look on while the shooter continues to unload his clip. It just does'nt appear that a person has enough reaction time to respond to a crisis of this magnitude. I would bet that some of our posters who are retired military knows exactly what this would feel like.

So...my point is...you as well as the other gun supportors should be very open minded when it comes to gun laws because if this continues...I would predict a all weapon ban. We may not be here to see it...but this surge of gun violence cannot continue. I predict we will see a Anti Gun group become as powerful as the NRA...and Americans may demand that we ban guns. I would hate to see this happen...I feel everyone should be able to do what they want as long as it doesnt affect the common good. We can't do just nothing but argue and blame Obama...there has to be some action to stop these violent crimes. Keep in mind...gun sales have been at a historical high and we do live in a society where one wants to go out in a blaze of drama.....remembered for something horrible. While both parties continue to fight about what to do...we can just sit back and wait for the next horrific event...passively.
A very impassioned argument and you may be correct. If this mass killing and violence continues who really knows what the outcome will eventually be? One thing we know for sure is that it will not be done by Executive Order.

I spent a couple of hours last night looking up studies and articles about literacy both in prisons and in mental institutions. I believe there is definitely a connection and it also encompasses the subject of people with "learning disabilities" within the system. No, I don't have any hard answers but I firmly believe that the a lack of education for whatever reason is the threshold to the type of insanity that leads to the terrible things that we have been reading about and seeing on our TV screens.

There are exceptions to the idea that a lack of education leads to violence. Exceptions like a crazy Muslim psychologist in an army of a mostly Christian nation. So maybe we have to include the idea that extreme irrational religious beliefs can also lead to insanity and violence if those beliefs also include things like conversion or death, retribution, death before dishonor, an eye for an eye, fair game, and R2-45. Turning the other cheek, non-violence, passive resistance, and refusing to fight are some of the tenets that seem to be able to temper the extreme religious beliefs. Therefore violence is mostly absent from these beliefs and not from the pro-violence beliefs.

My favorite writer, Robert Heinlein, wrote in many places in his books that most of the the ills of society were due to bureaucrats and over population. His characters, whether Earth bound or not, seemed to embody and believe in a sort of Manifest Destiny as the cure for all of mankind's ills. Maybe all the symptoms that we are lamenting are just that?

Last edited by hrdguera; 01-17-2013 at 07:26 AM.
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:31 AM   #20
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I agree, literacy along with ADHD has been studied and verified as a root cause of violent acts. But this theory does not apply to the shooters as of late...especially the school shootings. From what I have read....Adam Lanza was brilliant, the one in Colorado was a doctoral student...

Here is another one for you....who's rights are more important...the gun owners or the person digging a AK-47 bullet out of their walls this morning...

http://fox8.com/2013/01/16/bullets-f...rget-practice/

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