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Old 02-12-2013, 12:03 PM   #1
dsh5165
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Default WHO IS Satan?

WHO IS Satan?

The bible says that Satan would appear as, or “transform” himself …into... an angel of light!! (2 Corinthians 11:14).

-----BUT-----

Jesus also said; “I am the light of the world!!” (John 8:12)

-----QUESTION??-----

Which one of these “LIGHTS” are we to follow??

-----THE PROBLEM-----

One person is the “REAL” light and the other person is the “FAKE” light…trying to get you and I to believe that he’s the real light!!

Now….the problem is confusing because the “fake” one is so good at “IMITATING” the real one, that the people who are seeking the truth, can’t distinguish between the two and end up following the “fake” one, thinking they are following the “real” one!!

So…how can we “IDENTIFY” which one is the right one?

The scripture says that the wolf would come in sheep’s clothing!! (Mathew 7:15)

This means that Satan would look one way on the outside, (humble, innocent, and normal), but….his true nature would be hidden… on the inside!!

Now we as Christians, have to stop being so “naïve” and start using the “sound mind” (intelligence) that God said He put in us, when He created us, (2 Timothy 1:7), and let’s see if we can put a “FACE” to the problem!!

The bible says that God is a spirit…(John 4:24)

But guess what?? SATAN IS TOO!!

Now listen very carefully….since a spirit cannot be “seen” with the physical human eye, then that spirit has to take on a physical form or a human body, in order for you and I, as human beings….TO SEE IT!!

Now, when that spirit is “clothed” within a physical body, that body has a… “FACE”…attached to it!!

The bible says that God spoke to Moses, “face to face”, as a man speaketh to his friend!! (Exodus 33:11)

This means that Moses was able to “see” God…in a physical body…that had a “FACE” to it!!!!

The problem is, Satan is running around hiding, in a human form or body…that has a “FACE” to it…that you and I can see “EVERYDAY”…But we are scared to point him out!!

-----LISTEN-----

If you have ever been lied to or deceived, you don’t say that you were lied to or deceived by a spirit, You say you were lied to or deceived by “SOMEBODY”, who has a bad spirit….in them!!!

In court, they will ask you the question: Is the person, who committed the crime, here in the courtroom, and if so, can you… point them out?

When you point your finger, you’re not pointing at a spirit, your pointing at “SOMEBODY”….with a bad spirit in them and with a FACE!!

-----AN ANGEL OF LIGHT-----

Now….the word “light” is not only referring to sunlight, daylight, moonlight and starlight, but according to Mr. Webster, it also means: Knowledge or Enlightenment!!

So….Satan, transforming himself into an angel of light, also means that you and I would be dealing with a person or people, who “act” like they are “SUPERIOR” in “KNOWLEDGE!!”

They “act” like they know everything, about everything!!

And because they are “SUPERIOR” in knowledge, then everybody….should follow them….in everything that they do!!

But remember….the bible says that Satan’s job is to “DECEIVE THE WHOLE WORLD!!”

Now, what person or people, do you know, who act like they know everything about everything, who consider themselves to be “SUPERIOR”, and are trying to conquer and deceive the whole world????

CAN YOU “SEE” THEIR FACES????
CAN YOU “POINT” THEM OUT????

Then what you are looking at is: SATAN IN THE FLESH!!
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Old 02-12-2013, 01:14 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsh5165 View Post
WHO IS Satan?

The bible says that Satan would appear as, or “transform” himself …into... an angel of light!! (2 Corinthians 11:14).

-----BUT-----

Jesus also said; “I am the light of the world!!” (John 8:12)

-----QUESTION??-----

Which one of these “LIGHTS” are we to follow??

-----THE PROBLEM-----

One person is the “REAL” light and the other person is the “FAKE” light…tryinig to get you and I to believe that he’s the real light!!

Now….the problem is confusing because the “fake” one is so good at “IMITATING” the real one, that the people who are seeking the truth, can’t distinguish between the two and end up following the “fake” one, thinking they are following the “real” one!!

So…how can we “IDENTIFY” which one is the right one?

The scripture says that the wolf would come in sheep’s clothing!! (Mathew 7:15)

This means that Satan would look one way on the outside, (humble, innocent, and normal), but….his true nature would be hidden… on the inside!!

Now we as Christians, have to stop being so “naïve” and start using the “sound mind” (intelligence) that God said He put in us, when He created us, (2 Timothy 1:7), and let’s see if we can put a “FACE” to the problem!!

The bible says that God is a spirit…(John 4:24)

But guess what?? SATAN IS TOO!!

Now listen very carefully….since a spirit cannot be “seen” with the physical human eye, then that spirit has to take on a physical form or a human body, in order for you and I, as human beings….TO SEE IT!!

Now, when that spirit is “clothed” within a physical body, that body has a… “FACE”…attached to it!!

The bible says that God spoke to Moses, “face to face”, as a man speaketh to his friend!! (Exodus 33:11)

This means that Moses was able to “see” God…in a physical body…that had a “FACE” to it!!!!

The problem is, Satan is running around hiding, in a human form or body…that has a “FACE” to it…that you and I can see “EVERYDAY”…But we are scared to point him out!!

-----LISTEN-----

If you have ever been lied to or deceived, you don’t say that you were lied to or deceived by a spirit, You say you were lied to or deceived by “SOMEBODY”, who has a bad spirit….in them!!!

In court, they will ask you the question: Is the person, who committed the crime, here in the courtroom, and if so, can you… point them out?

When you point your finger, you’re not pointing at a spirit, your pointing at “SOMEBODY”….with a bad spirit in them and with a FACE!!

-----AN ANGEL OF LIGHT-----

Now….the word “light” is not only referring to sunlight, daylight, moonlight and starlight, but according to Mr. Webster, it also means: Knowledge or Enlightenment!!

So….Satan, transforming himself into an angel of light, also means that you and I would be dealing with a person or people, who “act” like they are “SUPERIOR” in “KNOWLEDGE!!”

They “act” like they know everything, about everything!!

And because they are “SUPERIOR” in knowledge, then everybody….should follow them….in everything that they do!!

But remember….the bible says that Satan’s job is to “DECEIVE THE WHOLE WORLD!!”

Now, what person or people, do you know, who act like they know everything about everything, who consider themselves to be “SUPERIOR”, and are trying to conquer and deceive the whole world????

CAN YOU “SEE” THEIR FACES????
CAN YOU “POINT” THEM OUT????

Then what you are looking at is: SATAN IN THE FLESH!!
You might try asking your God, he created him.
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Old 02-12-2013, 01:29 PM   #3
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Dear DSH: We see this trick of "Satan" all the time. For example, in politics,
some people stir up fear about a problem, say gun violence, and one group says I have the light this is the solution! And another says that is wrong, the real solution is blah blah blah. Well, whichever light you follow, the other group will see YOU as following Satan or the false light, being deceived and divided.

If you really want the real truth, find where BOTH groups AGREE and follow THAT light that dispels divisive fear and forges agreement. You will either be called Satan by people from both groups, who believe you are taking the side of the other, or by neither if you can align with allies from both groups -- depending what path they are following they will accuse you according to that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsh5165 View Post
WHO IS Satan?

The bible says that Satan would appear as, or “transform” himself …into... an angel of light!! (2 Corinthians 11:14).

-----BUT-----

Jesus also said; “I am the light of the world!!” (John 8:12)

-----QUESTION??-----

Which one of these “LIGHTS” are we to follow??

-----THE PROBLEM-----

One person is the “REAL” light and the other person is the “FAKE” light…trying to get you and I to believe that he’s the real light!!

Now….the problem is confusing because the “fake” one is so good at “IMITATING” the real one, that the people who are seeking the truth, can’t distinguish between the two and end up following the “fake” one, thinking they are following the “real” one!!

So…how can we “IDENTIFY” which one is the right one?

The scripture says that the wolf would come in sheep’s clothing!! (Mathew 7:15)

This means that Satan would look one way on the outside, (humble, innocent, and normal), but….his true nature would be hidden… on the inside!!

Now we as Christians, have to stop being so “naïve” and start using the “sound mind” (intelligence) that God said He put in us, when He created us, (2 Timothy 1:7), and let’s see if we can put a “FACE” to the problem!!

The bible says that God is a spirit…(John 4:24)

But guess what?? SATAN IS TOO!!

Now listen very carefully….since a spirit cannot be “seen” with the physical human eye, then that spirit has to take on a physical form or a human body, in order for you and I, as human beings….TO SEE IT!!

Now, when that spirit is “clothed” within a physical body, that body has a… “FACE”…attached to it!!

The bible says that God spoke to Moses, “face to face”, as a man speaketh to his friend!! (Exodus 33:11)

This means that Moses was able to “see” God…in a physical body…that had a “FACE” to it!!!!

The problem is, Satan is running around hiding, in a human form or body…that has a “FACE” to it…that you and I can see “EVERYDAY”…But we are scared to point him out!!

-----LISTEN-----

If you have ever been lied to or deceived, you don’t say that you were lied to or deceived by a spirit, You say you were lied to or deceived by “SOMEBODY”, who has a bad spirit….in them!!!

In court, they will ask you the question: Is the person, who committed the crime, here in the courtroom, and if so, can you… point them out?

When you point your finger, you’re not pointing at a spirit, your pointing at “SOMEBODY”….with a bad spirit in them and with a FACE!!

-----AN ANGEL OF LIGHT-----

Now….the word “light” is not only referring to sunlight, daylight, moonlight and starlight, but according to Mr. Webster, it also means: Knowledge or Enlightenment!!

So….Satan, transforming himself into an angel of light, also means that you and I would be dealing with a person or people, who “act” like they are “SUPERIOR” in “KNOWLEDGE!!”

They “act” like they know everything, about everything!!

And because they are “SUPERIOR” in knowledge, then everybody….should follow them….in everything that they do!!

But remember….the bible says that Satan’s job is to “DECEIVE THE WHOLE WORLD!!”

Now, what person or people, do you know, who act like they know everything about everything, who consider themselves to be “SUPERIOR”, and are trying to conquer and deceive the whole world????

CAN YOU “SEE” THEIR FACES????
CAN YOU “POINT” THEM OUT????

Then what you are looking at is: SATAN IN THE FLESH!!
it's all fear-based, manipulating people over their differences to form divisions by groups and keep them separated, oppressed and dependent on "third parties" to protect them from each other. We see this in politics all the time!
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Old 02-12-2013, 01:39 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by dsh5165 View Post
So….Satan, transforming himself into an angel of light, also means that you and I would be dealing with a person or people, who “act” like they are “SUPERIOR” in “KNOWLEDGE!!”

They “act” like they know everything, about everything!!

And because they are “SUPERIOR” in knowledge, then everybody….should follow them….in everything that they do!!
Oh...you mean CHRISTIANS!

Quote:
Now, what person or people, do you know, who act like they know everything about everything, who consider themselves to be “SUPERIOR”, and are trying to conquer and deceive the whole world????
Sapphire.


Quote:
Then what you are looking at is: SATAN IN THE FLESH!!
Keep taking the tablets pal!
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"Fear paints pictures of ghosts and hangs them in the gallery of ignorance." ]Robert Green Ingersoll
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Old 02-12-2013, 02:07 PM   #5
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Oh...you mean CHRISTIANS!

Sapphire.

Keep taking the tablets pal!
Yes, Sapphire is also aware and warning against false Christians who claim to be sharing knowledge or light, but still not liberating people totally with the entire message.

As you pointed out with FALSE FRAUDULENT faithhealers, there are those who abuse the religious to make money and create DEPENDENCY on them!

The REAL enlightenment would set people FREE, so that is how you tell the difference. We all joke about JW being dependent on the Watchtower and Elders to dictate policy, well they also deny spiritual healing can set people free.

While the people like Peck and my friend Olivia who have applied TRUE spiritual healing watched people become so independent they drop religion altogether. This happened with one of Peck's patients who dropped religion and went into medical science after she was treated and got her mind and free will back, and my friend Olivia helped my friend Daron to receive healing who is an atheist and nonchristian and still is! But he is healed of his past rage from child abuse, which he reported caused demonic voices and rages inside him he could not escape or control. Now those things are gone. He is not Christian and not giving any money to any Christian church any time soon which he still does not like!

So the TRUE spiritual healing is NOT about dependency but setting people free from addiction or obsession making them sick!

Plad I guess you don't get it because it is free.
And you don't believe people would be that magnanimous to
want to help people for free instead of charging lots of money to exploit it.

But Plad, if they were in it for the money, if there were conditions attached, the spiritual healing would not work because it would be about relying on those conditions. The forgiveness has to be unconditional for it to work, so it can't be about making money or else it IS fraud. That's how you can tell the difference!

These people who are authentic really DO care about setting people free of sickness. They realize that is more valuable than any money. When you understand this Plad, you will get why people jump up and down for Jesus, crying and acting looney in the aisles they are so happy and what they look like to other people doesn't matter next to being spiritually free of what was making them so sick in the past.

You think Sapphire is here to harass you out of love of judgment
when actually she cares for your soul because she knows what it means
to be set free. She wants the same for all others, doesn't know how to explain it, and is frustrated and angered when you insult her thinking she is doing this for some other reason when all she wants is to help people to understand and be free. The science will help establish clear proven understanding so I am pushing for that. Thank you Plad and I hope you will see someday soon that people are doing these things out of love of truth and justice and wanting all people to be freed from ignorance and suffering, as you also want people to be!

When you realize we want the same things, you will have peace and joy even more than before, that these people you thought were your enemy were trying to be a friend and help others. And likewise, more people will see that your pushing for scientific proof was the greatest gift that is missing here and will thank you as well, and no longer see you as the enemy but seeking real truth!

"Men often hate each other because they fear each other;
they fear each other because they don't know each other;
they don't know each other because they can not communicate; they can not communicate because they are separated."
-- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

"Perfect Love casts out all Fear"
-- the Bible
This is another way of saying the unconditional Love of God conquers all the Fear from Satan.

As long as people like you and Sapphire remain divided from each other out of fear or unforgiveness, that is what it means for Satan or the Devil to divide people. It's all fear based, and that is why Christians preach so much about divine forgiveness in Christ Jesus and the love of God that can overcome that fear and replace it.

Last edited by emilynghiem; 02-12-2013 at 02:14 PM.
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Old 02-12-2013, 11:56 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by emilynghiem View Post
Plad I guess you don't get it because it is free.
Oh I 'get it' all right. It's a fraud. 'Spiritual healing' doesn't work. It's a scam. QED.
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:15 AM   #7
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Oh I 'get it' all right. It's a fraud. 'Spiritual healing' doesn't work. It's a scam. QED.
Ok, Plad, let's make a 10 million dollar bet
there is a DIFFERENCE between the false fraudulent faith healing
(which MacNutt ALSO explains in his book and writing)
and the TRUE EFFECTIVE methods of spiritual healing
that have helped people overcome cancer, schizophrenia,
rheumatoid arthritis, etc.

Since you don't have 10 million dollars,
I am happy to ask Bill Gates and his foundation
to conduct a study to show this can help with
"neglected diseases" under the health initiatives
his foundation gives grants for to nonprofit organizations.
I believe curing schizophrenic voices and pedophilia addictions
would easily count as neglected diseases; and that either my friend Olivia's community
outreach nonprofit or MacNutt's educational outreach would count
as valid nonprofits since NEITHER has any complaints of "fraud" in their history
(of over 30 years of free help and hundreds if not thousands of testimonies
that the therapy was FREE and WORKED and did not involve any
of the false, wrongful or hurtful conditions that you, me and MacNutt
AGREE is the problem with FALSE FRAUDULENT faith healing which is DIFFERENT).


I will ask Wouldhe to be an objective witness
to read MacNutt's book first, and VERIFY that he ALSO
acknowledges there IS fraudulent faith-healing going on that
is exploiting and damaging people and preventing them
from getting medical help; and the difference with TRUE spiritual healing
is that this works WITH medicine, does NOT require money and
does not judge, condemn, or impose on people for wherever they are with
their religious views. It only involves the person freely ASKING help
with forgiveness as applied to the adverse conditions connected
to past memories, issues, conflicts or perceptions not fully forgiven yet.
For the forgiveness to work, it has to be freely given and received,
so none of these financial or religious conditions can be attached,
in fact, it prevents the healing from working fully
when there are such conditions attached! It blocks the process
so that's why false faith-healing FAILS.

So Plad
1. I AGREE with you to REJECT false fraudulent faith healing
that commits wrong and damages by
(a) requiring money or religious conditions
(b) rejecting medicine and denying treatment
(c) neglects or skips steps of forgiveness necessary for the healing to work
2. I am talking about the spiritual healing that works by
(a) remaining free of any conditions, no money or religion required
(b) working with all available means of treatment and therapy
and not falsely rejecting any science, medicine or mental therapy
(c) depends on correct diagnosis of the unforgiven issues or memories
and involves the person FREELY choosing to ask for help to receive
forgiveness and healing in order for the symptoms to be removed
3. I also want to verify that MacNutt's book ACKNOWLEDGES
the difference between #1 and #2, so you don't keep assuming
these are the same thing. #1 does not work and causes damage
which MacNutt WARNS against. #2 is the type he teaches which
remains FREE in order to work; all the AA groups are free for
the same reason, the participation works because it is voluntary;
people have to CHOOSE to ask for help - it CANNOT be imposed by religion.

Fraudulent faith healing FAILS for all the objections you stated.

Spiritual healing works because it does not do any of those wrong things!

Last edited by emilynghiem; 02-13-2013 at 11:23 AM.
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Old 02-13-2013, 02:48 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emilynghiem View Post
Ok, Plad, let's make a 10 million dollar bet
there is a DIFFERENCE between the false fraudulent faith healing
(which MacNutt ALSO explains in his book and writing)
and the TRUE EFFECTIVE methods of spiritual healing
that have helped people overcome cancer, schizophrenia,
rheumatoid arthritis, etc.

Since you don't have 10 million dollars,
I am happy to ask Bill Gates and his foundation
to conduct a study to show this can help with
"neglected diseases" under the health initiatives
his foundation gives grants for to nonprofit organizations.
I believe curing schizophrenic voices and pedophilia addictions
would easily count as neglected diseases; and that either my friend Olivia's community
outreach nonprofit or MacNutt's educational outreach would count
as valid nonprofits since NEITHER has any complaints of "fraud" in their history
(of over 30 years of free help and hundreds if not thousands of testimonies
that the therapy was FREE and WORKED and did not involve any
of the false, wrongful or hurtful conditions that you, me and MacNutt
AGREE is the problem with FALSE FRAUDULENT faith healing which is DIFFERENT).


I will ask Wouldhe to be an objective witness
to read MacNutt's book first, and VERIFY that he ALSO
acknowledges there IS fraudulent faith-healing going on that
is exploiting and damaging people and preventing them
from getting medical help; and the difference with TRUE spiritual healing
is that this works WITH medicine, does NOT require money and
does not judge, condemn, or impose on people for wherever they are with
their religious views. It only involves the person freely ASKING help
with forgiveness as applied to the adverse conditions connected
to past memories, issues, conflicts or perceptions not fully forgiven yet.
For the forgiveness to work, it has to be freely given and received,
so none of these financial or religious conditions can be attached,
in fact, it prevents the healing from working fully
when there are such conditions attached! It blocks the process
so that's why false faith-healing FAILS.

So Plad
1. I AGREE with you to REJECT false fraudulent faith healing
that commits wrong and damages by
(a) requiring money or religious conditions
(b) rejecting medicine and denying treatment
(c) neglects or skips steps of forgiveness necessary for the healing to work
2. I am talking about the spiritual healing that works by
(a) remaining free of any conditions, no money or religion required
(b) working with all available means of treatment and therapy
and not falsely rejecting any science, medicine or mental therapy
(c) depends on correct diagnosis of the unforgiven issues or memories
and involves the person FREELY choosing to ask for help to receive
forgiveness and healing in order for the symptoms to be removed
3. I also want to verify that MacNutt's book ACKNOWLEDGES
the difference between #1 and #2, so you don't keep assuming
these are the same thing. #1 does not work and causes damage
which MacNutt WARNS against. #2 is the type he teaches which
remains FREE in order to work; all the AA groups are free for
the same reason, the participation works because it is voluntary;
people have to CHOOSE to ask for help - it CANNOT be imposed by religion.

Fraudulent faith healing FAILS for all the objections you stated.

Spiritual healing works because it does not do any of those wrong things!
I'll make you a 100 dollar bet that faith healing does not cure cancer or anything else.

Last edited by Wouldhe; 02-13-2013 at 02:49 PM.
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Old 02-13-2013, 03:28 PM   #9
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Thanks, Wouldhe!
You can put in your 100 and I will put in 1000
that spiritual healing works when it distinguished from false faith healing
and no steps are skipped that would otherwise make it work.

The results are not guaranteed predictable 100%
just like any other treatment which may not work in all instances.
How do you propose to set this up where it clearly shows it is not random coincidence
but a consistent pattern of effectiveness even if results are not 100%?

if we can set this up right, I will ask Bill Gates to put in
10 million to replicate this method of therapy so it is FREELY accessible through
educational outreach, training and assistance in clinics and schools

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wouldhe View Post
I'll make you a 100 dollar bet that faith healing does not cure cancer or anything else.
NOTE: I agree that "false faith healing" does not work.
I also agree with Dr. MacNutt that missing steps of diagnosis and forgiveness
process can make it fail or be delayed until those steps are remedied
and the treatment can be completed in full.
And I agree that spiritual healing does not replace medical treatment,
but facilitates healing on all levels (mind/body/spirit) that require
different methods of treatment, where spiritual healing applies to the spirit
(and from there can affect the mind and body in turn).

Are you okay with

1. distinguishing false faith healing that doesn't work because it doesn't involve forgiving the root cause so it fails
FROM the healing process that DOES work and DOES involve identifying
root causes and praying for forgiveness of those (which is described
in the books and IS the type of process I am asking to study medically)
2. it is not the prayer itself that cures the disease; but the
prayer for forgiveness is to REMOVE the blockages preventing healing,
because removal then allows the life energy to increase its flow through the mind and body to facilitate healing. so the prayer FACILITATES the healing
and does not replace the mental and medical treatments which doctors
may also require
3. so in order to prove how the spiritual healing works, we'd have to pick
cases we both agree would demonstrate this without being attributable
to something else. In MacNutt's book he picked Rheumatoid Arthritis
and had a team of doctors record the patients' conditions before and
after the spiritual therapy treatment.

Wouldhe it could cost more than 100 just to set up a formal study.
Do you want me to contact MacNutt's group in Florida and go for
a formal grant to try to prove this medically?

Do you want just a local do-it-yourself demonstration?
I can try to ask Franco or someone else if we can have
Olivia pray for any medical symptoms to improve to see if that helps.

We can't always predict the results.
The larger the numbers, the more probability of seeing a pattern.
But yes, it is possible to demonstrate how it works
with just 1 or so tries. My godmother got instant help the first time
she tried, but then tried it again and again for many different types of things before she decided it was consistent.

I can't remember how many patients were in the RA study where
medical doctors confirmed there were healing effects that could
not be attributed to anything but the prayer team's therapy,
because in once case a patient went from being completely
bedridden and crippled with pain to completely normal and
walking pain free, which isn't possible with any medication.

How do you propose to set this up?

Can you call my friend Olivia to pick someone who
needs help that you can witness changing or not
and ask that person to pray for forgiveness with her?

Her number is 713 829 0899 if you want to keep this simple.
I was thinking to ask Franco to call her and try this, or do you have other ideas?

Last edited by emilynghiem; 02-13-2013 at 03:37 PM.
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Old 02-13-2013, 04:46 PM   #10
evileye
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Faith healing = Placebo Effect

Look it up.

It does work, and is a recorded fact. On the other hand medical treatment is far more effective and reliable.
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