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Old 02-26-2013, 10:28 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by pladecalvo View Post
You should change your handle to Captain Butthead.

You can make all the excuses about 'liberals' and scream 'the commies are coming' all you want but the facts show conclusively that America has an obsession and a problem with guns that the rest of the developed world does not have.

Let's see if you will answer a direct question

Do you think that if America had a gun ban along the lines of Europe or Australia, that the number of people killed by guns would be significantly reduced?
And another thing. I have an obsession with guns. Having traveled the world with the USMC, I purchased guns from every manufacturer I could. I have quite a c ollection, but I have not shot anyone since Viet Nam.
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Old 02-26-2013, 11:44 AM   #112
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.... I have not shot anyone since Viet Nam.
Yet!
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Old 02-26-2013, 11:45 AM   #113
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I don't think I deserve the butthead remark for disagreeing with you. You seem to be a bit of a bully
Jeez!!! What the hell has happened to everyone's sense of humour around here. There used to be some good banter on this forum!
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Old 02-26-2013, 02:11 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by pladecalvo View Post
Jeez!!! What the hell has happened to everyone's sense of humour around here. There used to be some good banter on this forum!
Our State Run media has taken our sense of humor and run off with it.
It seems the only joke these days is supposed to be in the White House.
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Old 02-27-2013, 02:38 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by pladecalvo View Post
....and?
You said I should look at your stats from the other side of the globe instead of looking at the stats on a country that borders my own, because to you Austrailia is more relevent than Mexico when they are both compaired to America.

My point is America does not border Austrailia it borders Mexico. And as I have stated before Mexico has strict gun laws and a high gun crime rate. If I lived in a area where the bordering countries did not have high violent crime rates and it was proven that strict gun laws/bans caused the low violent crime rates then I would agree there should be strict gun laws/bans. Since that is not the case at this time in this area of the world, I do not see why I should look at Austrailia and the laws they have reguarding guns.

If getting rid of all guns got rid of all voilent crimes I would be for getting rid of guns. I would support state laws to regulate/ban guns if it is proven to lower violent crime in a linear manner. (if gun regulations are inversely proportional to violent crimes)

Do you have any studies that show overall violent crime reduction caused by gun laws? For you to argue that gun bans equal less gun violence is not enough, you need to show that gun bans equal total violent crime reduction for me to agree with your stance. If gun bans decrease gun violence while increasing other violent crimes by the same amount or more then the ban is a failure.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:41 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by evileye View Post
You said I should look at your stats from the other side of the globe instead of looking at the stats on a country that borders my own, because to you Austrailia is more relevent than Mexico when they are both compaired to America.

My point is America does not border Austrailia it borders Mexico. And as I have stated before Mexico has strict gun laws and a high gun crime rate. If I lived in a area where the bordering countries did not have high violent crime rates and it was proven that strict gun laws/bans caused the low violent crime rates then I would agree there should be strict gun laws/bans. Since that is not the case at this time in this area of the world, I do not see why I should look at Austrailia and the laws they have reguarding guns.

If getting rid of all guns got rid of all voilent crimes I would be for getting rid of guns. I would support state laws to regulate/ban guns if it is proven to lower violent crime in a linear manner. (if gun regulations are inversely proportional to violent crimes)

Do you have any studies that show overall violent crime reduction caused by gun laws? For you to argue that gun bans equal less gun violence is not enough, you need to show that gun bans equal total violent crime reduction for me to agree with your stance. If gun bans decrease gun violence while increasing other violent crimes by the same amount or more then the ban is a failure.
So what will happen is the US Supremes decide to hear the cases on Concealed Carry Laws?

Apparently, it may happen according to reports out today.
My state allows CHP, others do not.
Who trumps here?

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Old 02-27-2013, 05:45 PM   #117
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So what will happen is the US Supremes decide to hear the cases on Concealed Carry Laws?

Apparently, it may happen according to reports out today.
My state allows CHP, others do not.
Who trumps here?
According to the US Constitution, the federal government does not have the right to pass any laws reguarding weapon rights so it would be up to the states to regulate weapons. But with the low reguard the USA seems to hold its own constitution I doubt it matters.
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Old 02-28-2013, 12:10 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by evileye View Post
You said I should look at your stats from the other side of the globe instead of looking at the stats on a country that borders my own, because to you Austrailia is more relevent than Mexico when they are both compaired to America.

My point is America does not border Austrailia it borders Mexico. And as I have stated before Mexico has strict gun laws and a high gun crime rate.
It's one thing to have strict gun laws and it's another to enforce those laws...and let's not forget that Mexico is not exactly in the same league with regard to being a highly developed first-world country is it. That's why I keep saying...compare apples with apples. In every other developed first-world country in the world where guns are banned, the number of people killed by guns is small.

Mexicans can still own guns providing they do not openly carry them in the street. Also, there is a lot illegal trafficking in firearms from the U.S. to Mexico. Many accounts have it that up to 90 percent of illegal guns in Mexico are from the U.S. So if we get rid of guns in the USA we also go some way to solving the problem in Mexico too as most of the gun crime in Mexico (according to what I read) is caused by illegal firearms.

Having just read the Mexican gun laws, I would support the same for the USA. Ideally, I'd like to see all guns gone but as not being able to have their dummies appears to be such a problem for Americans, they can own ONE pistol for protecting themselves, their homes and to masturbate over when they feel the need to have an orgasm over their obsession.. They cannot bring it out of their homes.

Quote:
If I lived in a area where the bordering countries did not have high violent crime rates and it was proven that strict gun laws/bans caused the low violent crime rates then I would agree there should be strict gun laws/bans. Since that is not the case at this time in this area of the world, I do not see why I should look at Austrailia and the laws they have reguarding guns.
What you should be looking at are the figures for the number of deaths from firearms around the world in countries that have gun restrictions.

Quote:
If getting rid of all guns got rid of all voilent crimes I would be for getting rid of guns. I would support state laws to regulate/ban guns if it is proven to lower violent crime in a linear manner.
Well it's not going to necessarily lower the rates of violent crime is it....simply because gun laws are introduced to lower the numbers of people killed by firearm and not to reduce the numbers of people stabbed or strangled.

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Do you have any studies that show overall violent crime reduction caused by gun laws?
No. I haven't seen any and again, overall violent crime is not necessarily going to be affected by restrictions on guns and I have never argued that it would. All I'm arguing is that if you have strict gun laws that are firmly enforced, the number of people killed or injured by guns will be reduced. Violent crime rates relate to all sorts of violent crime and not just to guns so laws specifically relating to guns are not necessarily have any impact on overall crime rates. Violent crime rates are going to go up and down like a yoyo because they are affected by so many other things as I previously mentioned.

Quote:
For you to argue that gun bans equal less gun violence is not enough, you need to show that gun bans equal total violent crime reduction for me to agree with your stance.
I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing that gun bans result in less people being killed by guns. That's it...nothing more.

Quote:
If gun bans decrease gun violence while increasing other violent crimes by the same amount or more then the ban is a failure.
Why don't you read what has already transpired in this thread? This has already been discussed. Let's say we have a town where in year 1, there are 8 people that die from guns and 2 people that die from knives making an annual 'death from violent crimes' figure of 10. The Mayor of the town is unhappy with the number of people being killed by guns and introduces tough gun laws to reduce the number of people killed by guns. In year 2 we find that only 2 people have been killed by guns but there have been 8 killed by knives. We still have 10 dead people but, given that the number of people shot has reduced from 8 to 2, have the gun laws been successful in their proposed purpose i.e to reduce the number of people killed by guns, or not?
Clearly they have, but knife crime has increased and so now our Mayor has to introduce restrictions on knives in his town.

You see, where you and a few others here are not getting it is that you are expecting regulations introduced to bring down gun deaths are also going to bring down the number of deaths caused by stabbing, strangulation, clubbing etc. It ain't gonna happen pal. What you are asking is that giving everyone a new heart is also going to reduce the number of people dying of lung cancer.

Let's try this analogy. Let's say we could have a situation whereby everyone in the world that had a defective heart was given a new heart. Following this, there were no deaths from heart failure. Unfortunately, more people started to smoke and the incidents of lung cancer increased to the extent that there are now more people dying from lung cancer than there were dying of heart conditions. Would you say that giving people new hearts was a failure?
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Old 02-28-2013, 01:12 AM   #119
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In following this thread, I have noticed a paucity in statistics as to where these shooting deaths occur.

For example, you will never ever be able to inflict a no-gun law in Los Angeles, areas of which are controlled by gangs and are infrequently patrolled or entered by law enforcement.

On the streets of Mayberry USA, the deaths by gun ratio with those of those inner cities that live by the gun pale by comparison.

Perhaps many Europeans do not understand the degree of "lawlessness" in the major cities of America. Although, this gap of understanding may be narrowing as immigrants from other countries begin to set up their own communities and mete out their own kind of justice, which in comparison to the touted "civilized" countries of Europe is pretty harsh.

So, while a no-gun law may one day be enacted in the good ol' USA, there will be several areas that will defy that law to the letter. Those groups who believe they will be called on to take back America from the radical left and those who live by the gun in the inner cities, protecting their turfs.

And who suffers most from whether or not there are guns prohibited or allowed? The innocent Juan and Juanita who try to live a decent life.


Secondly, what are you going to say to the Korean who stands on the roof of his house/business to defend his establishment from black agitators in the very same neighborhood. The Korean is armed--God bless him--and saves his establishment from being burned to the ground.

EUROPE HAS NO EQUIVALENT TO THE DEGREE OF VIOLENCE CAPABLE IN THE USA!

And forgive me for tweaking noses here, but I feel that it is out of line for our European cousins to start preaching--demanding--that we be like them. It is like Americans live in a very different world. And until Europeans walk in American mocassins, I would politely ask them to "stuff it."
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Old 02-28-2013, 04:52 AM   #120
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EUROPE HAS NO EQUIVALENT TO THE DEGREE OF VIOLENCE CAPABLE IN THE USA!
Then you are saying that America has a problem with it's society? And if you are, do you think that throwing more wood on the fire is going to quell the flames?
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