A Warning from Canada

[evileye]

Originally Posted by pladecalvo

Why don't you read what has already transpired in this thread? This has already been discussed. Let's say we have a town where in year 1, there are 8 people that die from guns and 2 people that die from knives making an annual 'death from violent crimes' figure of 10. The Mayor of the town is unhappy with the number of people being killed by guns and introduces tough gun laws to reduce the number of people killed by guns. In year 2 we find that only 2 people have been killed by guns but there have been 8 killed by knives. We still have 10 dead people but, given that the number of people shot has reduced from 8 to 2, have the gun laws been successful in their proposed purpose i.e to reduce the number of people killed by guns, or not?
Clearly they have, but knife crime has increased and so now our Mayor has to introduce restrictions on knives in his town.

You see, where you and a few others here are not getting it is that you are expecting regulations introduced to bring down gun deaths are also going to bring down the number of deaths caused by stabbing, strangulation, clubbing etc. It ain't gonna happen pal.

I think that is the whole point, if taking away one form of killing someone increases the rate of other meathods of killing by the same amount the problem is not solved. If you get rid of all guns and people just use another means of killing each other the underlying problem is not the guns it is people killing one another. Why should anyone have to give up rights if by givving up those rights nothing changes but the way you are killed. Who cares if you die by gun shot or by stabbing, you are dead either way. We should be looking to prevent people from killing each other instead of an endless debate on guns.

[pladecalvo]

Originally Posted by evileye

I think that is the whole point, if taking away one form of killing someone increases the rate of other meathods of killing by the same amount the problem is not solved.

What is solved is one of the problems. When that is done you work on another.

If you get rid of all guns and people just use another means of killing each other the underlying problem is not the guns it is people killing one another.

In a way you are right but what else can be done other than solving the problem a bit at a time. Sure it would be great if we could solve the problem in one fell swoop but do you really think that is possible?

Why should anyone have to give up rights if by givving up those rights nothing changes but the way you are killed.

So how are you going to solve the problem?

We should be looking to prevent people from killing each other ...

Capital idea!! I'm all for it So where are you going to start?

[pladecalvo]

Originally Posted by Wallis

And until Europeans walk in American mocassins, I would politely ask them to "stuff it."

You know what Wal...you're bloody right on there pal. Why the hell am I even concerned that you slaughter each other by the tens of thousands every year. If you think that 33,000 deaths a year is worth it, who am I to say otherwise. It's a problem for you to sort not anyone else.

Thanks man! I'll mind my own business in future..

I'm done in this thread!

[Grandpa_Dave]

Originally Posted by pladecalvo

... I'm done in this thread!

"Happy trails to you, until we meet again.
Happy trails to you, keep smilin' until then.
Who cares about the clouds when we're together?
Just sing a song and bring the sunny weather.
Happy trails to you, 'till we meet again."

Enjoy your retirement and avoid high blood pressure
the leading cause of stroke.

[evileye]

Originally Posted by pladecalvo

Capital idea!! I'm all for it So where are you going to start?

Well I would like to see more mental health care and a higher education of the population.

Also I think one of the other major problems is the parents not raising their children.

These are the issues I would start with to reduce violent crimes.

[pladecalvo]

Originally Posted by Grandpa_Dave

Enjoy your retirement and avoid high blood pressure
the leading cause of stroke.

You're right bro. I already suffer from high blood pressure.

[Stevomeo]

I'm very surprised that no one on this thread questioned or broke down the gun related deaths provided by Plad. The actual homicide rate is about 1/3 of the total number of deaths involving firearms. Suicides, accidents, and police involved shootings round out the remainder.

[Wallis]

Originally Posted by pladecalvo

Then you are saying that America has a problem with it's society? And if you are, do you think that throwing more wood on the fire is going to quell the flames?

With all due respect, Plad, don't pull an Emily and read into it what you only want to read.

The problem is also with the Europeans. There is a smugness that emboldens them to feel that their way of life is the best and the only way.

There is a problem in every society. But tell me the last time a European had to stand on his roof and stare down an angry mob ripping and destroying everything in sight. The riots in Paris a few years ago? And how did the European defend himself? The police? What a laugh.

The United States Government has been telling people ever since just before Katrina to take care of themselves in situations of dire necessity. Sometimes, when you have a mob of people hell bent on destruction, being armed is a deterrent.

But you, along with other Europeans, would prefer for we "barbarians" to follow your "high" road and rely on armed forces or constabularies to protect the individual citizen. That kind of utopic and panacea thinking is just that: a fantasy. The police cannot be everywhere, and they cannot protect but just the few.

I feel a bit sorry that Europeans shed a tear over our dead. I feel a bit sorry that we have to bury our dead. But it is not a picture whereby the only people getting shot are innocents. A great many people getting shot over here are belligerants. Hell, in many of our cities, it is still the Wild, Wild West. And no European nor American Wyatt Earp is ever going to tame this wildness by taking guns away.

Lastly, I am just taken away at the number of pages spent on arguing across the fence about which side is greener. If Europeans are afraid to come to America to live, stay home. If Americans are convinced that Europe is a safer place to live and breed, then move!

But guns are not the real problem. The real problem is people, and we have done nothing to improve upon the deplorable psychological condition of people. We're animals! And if it isn't guns we can lay our hands on, then there is a cornucopia of tools and resources we can use to kill each other with.

You know, I just had a fleeting thought, and it made me laugh. Not too many centuries ago, Europeans used to walk around armed with swords. Everyone had to have a sword. And duelling was in vogue, usually the impetus a slight or an affected insult. In fact, there were people just "dying" to be slighted so that they could duel.

Where was the clamor for taking away swords?

[Wouldhe]

So Maryland and New York have enacted new, more restictive gun laws. Let's see what happens to crime with guns statistics this time next year. Anybody guessing the results?

[Stevomeo]

Originally Posted by Wallis

With all due respect, Plad, don't pull an Emily and read into it what you only want to read.

The problem is also with the Europeans. There is a smugness that emboldens them to feel that their way of life is the best and the only way.

There is a problem in every society. But tell me the last time a European had to stand on his roof and stare down an angry mob ripping and destroying everything in sight. The riots in Paris a few years ago? And how did the European defend himself? The police? What a laugh.

The United States Government has been telling people ever since just before Katrina to take care of themselves in situations of dire necessity. Sometimes, when you have a mob of people hell bent on destruction, being armed is a deterrent.

But you, along with other Europeans, would prefer for we "barbarians" to follow your "high" road and rely on armed forces or constabularies to protect the individual citizen. That kind of utopic and panacea thinking is just that: a fantasy. The police cannot be everywhere, and they cannot protect but just the few.

I feel a bit sorry that Europeans shed a tear over our dead. I feel a bit sorry that we have to bury our dead. But it is not a picture whereby the only people getting shot are innocents. A great many people getting shot over here are belligerants. Hell, in many of our cities, it is still the Wild, Wild West. And no European nor American Wyatt Earp is ever going to tame this wildness by taking guns away.

Lastly, I am just taken away at the number of pages spent on arguing across the fence about which side is greener. If Europeans are afraid to come to America to live, stay home. If Americans are convinced that Europe is a safer place to live and breed, then move!

But guns are not the real problem. The real problem is people, and we have done nothing to improve upon the deplorable psychological condition of people. We're animals! And if it isn't guns we can lay our hands on, then there is a cornucopia of tools and resources we can use to kill each other with.

You know, I just had a fleeting thought, and it made me laugh. Not too many centuries ago, Europeans used to walk around armed with swords. Everyone had to have a sword. And duelling was in vogue, usually the impetus a slight or an affected insult. In fact, there were people just "dying" to be slighted so that they could duel.

Where was the clamor for taking away swords?

Well said man!!! We're different than any other place on earth.