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Old 05-01-2012, 04:47 PM   #11
Wouldhe
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No one can understand the "Revelation" of Jesus Christ, unless they are born of the Spirit of God.. The Word of God is Spirit and Truth.

I understand it. And so do many more believers and followers of Jesus.
You understand fairy tales and story's from lunatic men.
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Old 05-01-2012, 05:40 PM   #12
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You understand fairy tales and story's from lunatic men.
All spiritually dead people say the same thing.
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:44 PM   #13
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Default What Did Luther Think of "Revelation"?

Actually, not very much. He thought it was unapostolic in origin. Contained nothing about Jesus Christ, which in his view made it virtually useless-but barely passed it into canon. It was the book most fought over in the early church. It is obvious that it was not written by an apostle as apostles would never think of bowing to angels. And whose "foundation stone" was "John" looking at when the angel showed him all the foundation stones of the apostles?
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Old 05-08-2012, 04:25 PM   #14
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The Book of Revelation, Revelation, The Revelation of St. John and The Apocalypse of St. John are all common titles but are always in the singular. This last book of the bible is but one of many apocolyptic texts of the era but the only one included in the canon. It was written by John, not the gospel writer, while imprisoned on the Isle of Patmos and is his account of a prophecy or vision imparted to him.

If you do not follow or believe what the bible has to say then simply stop reading, this is not for you. If you do believe, I do not want to change what or how you think about what is said but simply state a few points that may change your perspective. If you read the book with the following in mind, it may shed new thoughts or understanding.

1. The book was written by a man roughly 2,000 years ago and is his account of a vision of things to come at least 2,000 years in the future. How would a 2,000 year old man describe an attack helicopter or a phone for that matter. Look at what the book describes from that perspective.

2. There are things that happen on earth and things that happen in heaven. While they are seperate, they are intertwined and what happens in either place effects the other. Things that happen in heaven are nescessary and are significant to what happens here but it does not mean that what happens there is within our ability to comprehend.

3. This book, along with Daniel and others seem to fit descriptions of events of the past and many think the prophecies have come to pass. Others think they have yet to come to pass. Please do not be nieve enough to think that it is outside of Heaven's power for both to be true. In the heavenly relm, there is symetry repetition and order of things that have been and must be. Seven Seals, Seven Bowls, Seven Trumpets. A set of Seven events but all exists as warnings calling the unbelievers to believe. Seven warnings repeated three times. A period of 7 years in the tribulation that some say has come already. There is plenty of reason to believe it has. There is no reason to believe it has not happened again since or will not happen a third time.

Read the book and deeply consider the perspective of the author, of your perspective and from the perspective of Heaven. Consider those perspectives both seperately and collectively. If you can do that, I would be interested to hear how it turns out.
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Old 05-08-2012, 04:40 PM   #15
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The Book of Revelation, Revelation, The Revelation of St. John and The Apocalypse of St. John are all common titles but are always in the singular. This last book of the bible is but one of many apocolyptic texts of the era but the only one included in the canon. It was written by John, not the gospel writer, while imprisoned on the Isle of Patmos and is his account of a prophecy or vision imparted to him.

If you do not follow or believe what the bible has to say then simply stop reading, this is not for you. If you do believe, I do not want to change what or how you think about what is said but simply state a few points that may change your perspective. If you read the book with the following in mind, it may shed new thoughts or understanding.

1. The book was written by a man roughly 2,000 years ago and is his account of a vision of things to come at least 2,000 years in the future. How would a 2,000 year old man describe an attack helicopter or a phone for that matter. Look at what the book describes from that perspective.

2. There are things that happen on earth and things that happen in heaven. While they are seperate, they are intertwined and what happens in either place effects the other. Things that happen in heaven are nescessary and are significant to what happens here but it does not mean that what happens there is within our ability to comprehend.

3. This book, along with Daniel and others seem to fit descriptions of events of the past and many think the prophecies have come to pass. Others think they have yet to come to pass. Please do not be nieve enough to think that it is outside of Heaven's power for both to be true. In the heavenly relm, there is symetry repetition and order of things that have been and must be. Seven Seals, Seven Bowls, Seven Trumpets. A set of Seven events but all exists as warnings calling the unbelievers to believe. Seven warnings repeated three times. A period of 7 years in the tribulation that some say has come already. There is plenty of reason to believe it has. There is no reason to believe it has not happened again since or will not happen a third time.

Read the book and deeply consider the perspective of the author, of your perspective and from the perspective of Heaven. Consider those perspectives both seperately and collectively. If you can do that, I would be interested to hear how it turns out.
Well I certainly have. I tried to look back and imagine what life was like and why and how John ended up on Patmos. I can imagine a man deeply hurt and very depressed over what has happened to him. I can see a man who being in solitary could end up talking to himself and having visions from being driven crazy from isolation and for lack of anything to do documented his dreams and visions. Therefore I conclude it's all very nice reading but hardly any substance to it.
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:18 PM   #16
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Well I certainly have. I tried to look back and imagine what life was like and why and how John ended up on Patmos. I can imagine a man deeply hurt and very depressed over what has happened to him. I can see a man who being in solitary could end up talking to himself and having visions from being driven crazy from isolation and for lack of anything to do documented his dreams and visions. Therefore I conclude it's all very nice reading but hardly any substance to it.
Solitary confinement really messes with human psychology, it can cause a lot of mental issues. Humans are social animals and do not function well when removed from interactions with others.
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Old 05-08-2012, 08:28 PM   #17
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Ok guys. I guess I should have made the crazy disclaimer before. Anyway, so he was in prision, maybe lonely, maybe crazy or maybe just concerned with avoiding gang rape in the shower. Irrelevant. If you are going to read it, its truth or untruth is an article of faith. If you do not believe it will not change your mind.

The only other thing I would say is that: If an angel appeared before you, or spoke to you or just sent you a message, you have the option to believe or dismiss. If you choose to believe and ultimately share the message you have been given, the rest of the world will think you are nuckin futs too.
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Old 05-09-2012, 03:11 AM   #18
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Ok guys. I guess I should have made the crazy disclaimer before. Anyway, so he was in prision, maybe lonely, maybe crazy or maybe just concerned with avoiding gang rape in the shower. Irrelevant. If you are going to read it, its truth or untruth is an article of faith. If you do not believe it will not change your mind.

The only other thing I would say is that: If an angel appeared before you, or spoke to you or just sent you a message, you have the option to believe or dismiss. If you choose to believe and ultimately share the message you have been given, the rest of the world will think you are nuckin futs too.
Look at Mohammad's experience with the Arch Angel Gabriel.
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Old 05-09-2012, 08:22 AM   #19
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evileye. Interesting read re: Gabiel and Muhammed.
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Old 05-09-2012, 08:58 AM   #20
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Ok guys. I guess I should have made the crazy disclaimer before. Anyway, so he was in prision, maybe lonely, maybe crazy or maybe just concerned with avoiding gang rape in the shower. Irrelevant. If you are going to read it, its truth or untruth is an article of faith. If you do not believe it will not change your mind.

The only other thing I would say is that: If an angel appeared before you, or spoke to you or just sent you a message, you have the option to believe or dismiss. If you choose to believe and ultimately share the message you have been given, the rest of the world will think you are nuckin futs too.
Well there is no documented evidence of Angels so not a concern.
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